Your Say
Lost democracy?
by MarkTeale
9 months ago
Last updated 9 months ago.
Whilst MPs are being rightly criticised for apparently fraudulently claiming expenses, it seems to be hiding another incipient fact that appears to be happening within government. Why are unelected, and in some cases, previously discredited people, being given ministerial jobs representing the government, appearing on TV every other minute to state the governments arguments and generally bolstering the governments position on a variety of issues. Surely in a democracy we elect people who represent our views and should be prepared to personally defend any policies that they implement. We should not be listening to the hired help!
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Nutmeg Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
I totally agree. It’s not new, at least a century ago people were arguing that the government (what we now call the executive) had all the power and MPs were irrelevant. And, of course, the House of Lords has always supplied government ministers. There was an article the other day by Douglas Hurd and John Major advocating bringing in even more people from outside parliament into government. The MPs we elect are just lobby-fodder, with no power other than to do what their party leadership tells them.
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
"The MPs we elect are just lobby-fodder, with no power other than to do what their party leadership tells them.": absolutely true. plus, of course, 80% of all new legislation arrives pre-packed from europe. debate may as well be reduced to the party leaders merely holding aloft cards with the number of mp’s they have.
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Nutmeg Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
That 80% figure is disputed, of course. It’s in the interests of parties like UKIP to make such claims, whereas other experts put it much lower.
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
ex-europe minister caroline [ i haven’t read the lisbon treaty ] flint put the figure at a remarkably precise 9.1%. obviously, the government will not want to admit the truth, as usual.
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Roberto Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
What I have often found infuriating is the handing of major posts to MP’s based on how much grovelling they have done to the PM. Surely these MP’s should be positioned strategically based on their experience or expertise in a particular field. It was not too far back when we saw the Minister for Transport who did not even have a driving licence and as pointed out above Caroline Flint who would rather blather make up on than read the Lisbon Treaty.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
1 "Grovelling"...that’s simply your opinion.
2 Why should the Minister for Transport have a driving licence? Would you expect the Health Minister to be able to perform open heart surgery?
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
i would expect the health minister to at least use the nhs, to experience life as the plebs do. and the transport minister, as with all ministers, should have some relevant real world experience. as for the grovelling well, they euphemistically describe it as "offering support" [so i get a better job, like home secretary in return for which i will temporarily shelve my leadership plans]. ms. flint did exactly this until it became apparent [the next day] that she was being reshuffled – cue vitriolic attack on the pm and petulant resignation.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
The previous Minister for Health and present Home Secretary experienced life as a pleb. He began his working life as a postman. Still, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant!
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
i’m sure that a limelight-grabbing, communist ex-postman who said recently that mp’s expenses were a "fifth order issue", and who now favours p.r. ‘cos labour will be wiped out under first-past-the-post, is just what we need as home secretary. still, don’t let blinkered dyed-in-the-wool party loyalty get in the way of a risible riposte!.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
But you do agree then that he used to be a postman? YThat he has experienced life as a pleb? Yeah? That’s okay then. Still, you’ve never let being proved wrong stop you from moving the goalposts have you?
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Roberto Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
What exactly is a pleb?
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theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
A Latin abbreviation for the common man/woman. (plebian)
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Roberto Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
Ah so all of the contents of both parlimentary houses then.
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
Chr23 – does the communist ex-postman still use the nhs?. probably not. please explain how i’ve been proved wrong, btw: i am on about the holder of the post of health minister, not the personal history of the current incumbent, with which you seem to be preoccupied. and why are you so sure that being a postman is qualification for "pleb" [ nowadays a derogatory term for someone thought of as inferior, common or ignorant ] status?. see also "hoi polloi".
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barrow Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
It would be nice if any minister had some experience of the post they are put in,and not placed as a reward.Many have no idea or experience.But having worked in local government for 34 years,have seen many elected councilors having no idea or experience.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
You mentioned the word "pleb" first Arthur I was merely following your lead. And anyway you might find it derogatory, but I don’t. It’s simply a shortened form of "plebian" as I’m sure you know. As you seem to associate ‘pleb’ with people who use the NHS, and postmen as people who use the NHS then I would assume that you and most postmen would see the job as ‘plebian’. All of those that I worked with (yes, I used to be one), used the NHS.
So yeah, I guess that Johnson has used the NHS, and I would think that he probably still does so. Even if he doesn’t, then he will have used it in the past, probably when he was a postman, communist or not.
And just to put the record straight, I’m not "blinkered" or "dyed in the wool". There have been plenty of things that this government has done wrong, just as there are plenty of things that they have done right. I try to look at things logically, and not simply indulge in an orgy of bandwagon jumping. Which you seem to have devoted yourself to since the tax dodging Barclay Brothers set their organ loose on this particular democracy.
Still, never let someone elses motives sway you from your quest for self aggrandisement eh?!!
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
"...your quest for self aggrandisement eh?!!" ??? – self-amusement maybe, while waiting for the kettle to boil.
"...present Home Secretary experienced life as a pleb. He began his working life as a postman…": the association of "pleb" with "postman" comes from you chr23.
still, blah blah-blah, blah blah, eh?.
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MarkTeale Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
Many of you seem to have missed the point of the original post – why is it that amongst the 600 ‘odd’ politicians elected, the ‘government’ cannot select a sub-group of ‘talented & honest’ poeple who head up the implementation of policies and account to the public for their actions. There is no reason why they cannot have advisors, but these should be backroom staff and not, as in the one case infered, to a previously convicted tax swindler (but not according to the politians one above the ‘common’ law rule book!)
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
there aren’t enough "talented & honest" people amongst them, as we see proved every day: so they install their back-scratching cronies / relatives in the positions you describe. and, as they don’t give a stuff about the public, they feel they don’t have to account for anything.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
Mark, what you have described is more or less what actually happens. The group of "talented and honest" people are n the cabinet, and they are responsible to the backbench members of parliament, who in turn are accountable to you.
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
hahahahaha – "honest" and "talented": really, you guys crack me up. my mp is in the cabinet – is he accountable to me?. i don’t understand how you think it all works.
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Chromosome23 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
You’ve got to be proactive Arthur. Simply sniping from the sidelines isn’t good enough. If you’ve got a problem, why don’t you write to him?
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MarkTeale Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
I cannot avoid refering to the expense scandle – how can claiming £100’s of pounds for ‘food’ be ‘honest’ – unless the IR now allow food as a legitimate business expense -by my recockoning my MP cliams about £12 per day for food, better than the Big Brother luxary allowance! Still it’s going through my books this year as I never eat at my ‘primary’ residence, what’s good for an MP is good for me!
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
they also claimed "food" when the house is not sitting. and i have written to mp’s chr 23, but all one receives is a standard "your comments have been noted" type of reply. however, a letter to lord quinton generated a hand-written response from his london pied a terre . and i’m not sniping – as i said previously, i am merely amusing myself between bouts of activity, like.
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alanmackinnon Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
Mark Teale, will you write to us from prison when you get done by the taxman for attempted tax fraud for attempting to claim for food? Or is it your intention to add the letters MP at the end of your surname and change it by deed poll. Come to think of it, why don’t all persons who pay tax other than PAYE try that one? It might work and then we would be able to watch the latest flights of pork across the skies whilst we all sat down to free food paid for by the tax payer…...er, hang on… that’s us, isn’t it? Ah well, back to the drawing board, people.
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Adolf Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
unfortunately, hm revenue & customs take the view that one eats to live, rather than eat to work so nosh is normally not allowed, unless you can prove that you are operating outside your normal working routine or are an itinerant worker. however as usual, a "reasonable" claim may be accepted, providing that can produce evidence [receipts etc], and if you get a sympathetic tax officer [ oxymoron alert ].
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Tinkerboy Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
The answer to you question is that most MPs are bent, and so they all urinate in the same pot. Just look at how they arrive at the speaker, I am afraid contrary to what you may think we do not have a democracy, just a sham. They should take all the decent MPs from all parties to form a government and the people should elect a speaker from outside whitehall, get rid of historical traditi0on and move into 2009 with a modern outlook. And put a four year restiction on MPs to serve.
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