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BNP membership list leaked

by Eloise 7 months ago
Last updated 5 months ago.

Anybody a member of the BMP? If you are/were would you hide it?

This is a fascinating event, and yet another that is only possible on the internet to reach so far and so quickly.

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MikeCovell Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I am not a member of the BNP but this map shows there is a high number of members in our region, http://spod.cx/bnp_members_list.shtml
Eloise Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

That’s a bit scary, although no worse than the rest of the country. Have you noticed all round the coast seems to be lit up but with some unaffected inland areas?
Squaggles Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

What’s a high number ? I thought the total membership was about 14,000 which is pretty small in the wide scheme of things .
karl Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Why can’t people support who they want to, and why is it scary? Do we not have a democratic society where we vote for who we want, PRIVATELY. There would be outrage if one of the other party members were published. No wonder this country is going to the dogs, too many inter fearing nannies.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

be interesting to see a list of freemasons….still, this is one of the reasons that the bnp will never assume power. i mean, what kind of political party loses great wads of peoples’ information?.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Whoops! Sorry Eloise, but I’ve just posted a thread with the same subject matter. I should’ve checked, but didn’t. Could the mods delete my thread please? Here’s the post that I made to go with the thread title…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7736794.stm

The entire membership list of the British National Party has been published on the internet.

Given that the BNP subscribe to a far right agenda which would happily restrict your own civil rights, do you think that they are justified in attempting to use the Data Protection Act to have this information suppressed?

I myself was pleasantly surprised to see a picture of the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, stood in front of a placard which read something along the lines of ‘No to the British Police State’. I just felt that it should have had ‘Unless it’s us that are running it’ added at the bottom.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote Karl "Why can’t people support who they want to, and why is it scary? "

Because there is a dichotomy involved. Because fascist/authoritarian groups such as the BNP defend their right to hold their views by invoking freedom of speech, a freedom which, given half a chance, they would remove. They defend their policies, and their right to hold them, by invoking a system which they find implicity abhorrent. As such, they don’t actually believe that the system, which allows them to spout their poison, is valid. Clear enough?
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

And by removing their right to free speech then you yourself become a Fascist organisation.

Their rights have been violated, and someone should be punished, and before you start throwing accusations, no, I’m not a member of the BNP, who incidently are not much different to our present Labour party, consider all the restrictions of our freedoms they’ve brought in.
karl Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

C23, it seems you are the one who dosn’t believe in freedom of speech as you clearly want their freedom to speak stopped. This what I would call hypocritical, I believe everyone has the right to speak and think as they wish, and no law, politician, religion or any member of the pc brigade should prevent that from happening.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

interesting that the forces of the liberal left seem to be involved in a totalitarian witch-hunt. like it or not, the bnp is a legal, registered political party and as such should be afforded the same the same treatment & benefits as other parties. what if current and former members of the communist party of gb were "outed"? – quite a few "reformed marxist" labour mp’s there i would imagine. would newspapers print a "lib – dem membership by postal district" map for example, as they have here?. also, it has come to light that people can apparently lose their jobs because of their political affiliations. what next? – abolition of the opposition?. and no, i do not belong to the bnp, or any other political party for that matter.
thisisYourMail Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

BNP list reveals names of members

from the Hull Daily Mail/East Riding Mail Thursday, November 20

More than 60 members of the British National Party (BNP) live in East Yorkshire, according to a leaked list revealed yesterday. A full list of members appeared on an Internet blog before it was removed following complaints from the far right group’s leader Nick Griffin.

According to the BNP, the published list is based on its 2007 membership, although it says a number of names of people who were not or are not party members were added.

The list of more than 12,000 names nationally included addresses and contact details, as well as members’ jobs.

Some were listed as police officers and members of the British Armed Forces.

In a statement, posted on the BNP’s website, Mr Griffin said: “We’ll be asking the police to investigate.

“It’s a list that is now more than a year old.

“Having spent a lot of money to secure our members’ privacy, we are disappointed it has been breached.”

Mr Griffin described the publication as “a disgraceful act of treachery” by former BNP staff members who had subsequently been sacked.

He said he had lodged a complaint with Dyfed-Powys Police on the grounds the publication breached human rights and data protection laws.

Earlier this year, the party said that it obtained orders to try to prevent the list being made public.

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) last night confirmed serving police officers were not allowed to be members of the BNP.

Peter Fahy, Greater Manchester Police chief constable and Acpo’s workforce development spokesman, said: “Membership or promotion of the BNP by any member of the police service, whether police officer or police staff, is prohibited.

“This is because such membership would be incompatible with our duty to promote equality under the Race Relations Amendment Act and would damage the confidence of minority communities.

“While the policy may have been controversial at the time it was enacted, in 2004, it has since been accepted by all staff and staff associations and remains unchallenged thus far.”

The Mail has decided not to print names of individuals because of privacy issues.

ACPO www.acpo.police.uk
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"The Mail has decided not to print names of individuals because of privacy issues." quite right, too.
karl Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Do the Manchester Police ban its officers from joining other polictical parties or groups.
Squaggles Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

60 members in East Yorkshire ? Hardly a ‘high number’ is it ? I once saw a BNP march/demonstration in the midlands , it consisted of about 15 BNP members , 50 police officers and 300 people protesting against the march .
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

60 in east yorkshire? there are probably more members of the beano fan club. also, highly amusing that the met police has a black officers’ association which discriminates on the grounds of skin colour.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Well said Mario. I agree on all counts
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Imagine if if the met police had a white officers’ association.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote karl "it seems you are the one who dosn’t believe in freedom of speech as you clearly want their freedom to speak stopped. "

Wrong as usual karl. For one thing, I’ve not stated that I want their freedom to speak stopped. In fact I think that they should be given every opportunity to defend their beliefs in a public forum, be it in the newspapers, on TV or even on here.

But back to the publishing of the list of party members. If someone joins a political party, they do so believing that they are making a public statement of their political beliefs. I’ve known members of all three of the major parties, and also of the minor ones as well. All were quite happy to tell me of their political affiliations. If BNP members believe that they are right in their views, as members of other political parties believe that they are right in their views, then why does the BNP kick up a fuss when their membership list is made public?

Quote KATZ49 "And by removing their right to free speech then you yourself become a Fascist organisation."

No you don’t. With freedom of speech comes responsibility. By use of coded language, far right organisations attempt to use ‘freedom of speech’ to evade that responsibility.
China Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Perhaps C23 means that there is a certain irony in a group of people bleating about their ‘civil rights’ whilst the mainstay of their ‘beliefs’ seeks to curtail the ‘civil rights’ of others.
AR-Tony Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Freedom of speech is one thing, freedom to maintain one’s privacy is another and equally important. If I was in her Majesty’s Forces, the Police or even the Boy’s Brigade and discovered some self opinionated idiot had posted my details on the internet, in some rag, or whatever, I would be absolutely incandescent with rage.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"highly amusing that the met police has a black officers’ association which discriminates on the grounds of skin colour."

@ Mario. That’s a ridiculous comparison. The NBPA isn’t about discrimination.

There isn’t really a conflict of membership in being in the NBPA, as it’s for looking out for the welfare of black policemen, its more a professional thing, it doesn’t necessarily interfere with policemen serving the community…whereas being a BNP member suggests they aren’t necessarily going to treat all members of the community fairly if they don’t want some of them to be there. Not to mention the fact that it makes people in those communities trust the police less, which in turn will encourage crime…

Also groups like the NBPA only exist as a response to an existing problem.

I know what you’re saying, that having groups like this can look like double standards, and may make people feel marginalised…but at the same time, just because racism isn’t as publicly accepted it still exists, and it’s a lot more subtle or hidden. And it’s easy for people who experience it to get fobbed off as "playing the race card" even if it’s genuine…hence the existence of such groups.

If this were an ideal world, it would be unnecessary, agreed. But as it’s not it’s more like the lesser evil….
karl Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

c23 you are very hypocritical in your views, you spout freedom is only for those you agree with, just because someone is a member of what ever, it doesn’t mean their full contact details should plastered all over the place by ignorant morons. They have the right to privacy laws just as you or I, without prejudice on any grounds.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"The NBPA isn’t about discrimination." well, surely the NBPA only exists because its’ members perceive discrimination? and can a white office join?. a why can say, a nurse who must also be impartial when delivering their services be a bnp member but not a policeman?. we are told that "brave british troops" are being killed in iraq for the sake of democracy: what a shame it seems under threat of further erosion at home.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Well done Mario. You’ve completely missed the point. The NBPA exists because discrimination is very real, and is still happening. It’s purpose is for the support of a minority. Why can’t a white officer join? If the reason is not self evident then you really are a stupid, stupid man.

Make no qualms about it this party, despite desparatley craving legitimacy insights racism…...Nick Griffen doesn’t give two hoots for the human rights of the asian community in Bradford when he actively stired up the riots there.

I hope there will be many more sackings as a result of this list. It’s good that their are many employers who do not want to have racists representing them to the public. Intolerance of racism is good.

There is no space for BNP members in the public sector imo. You may argue it’s discrimination against their political views, but these are political views that could affect how they see their job.

If I wasn’t white I don’t know that I’d trust a policeman who was of the opinion I shouldn’t be in this country.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

you said: "The NBPA isn’t about discrimination."

so i said: "well, surely the NBPA only exists because its’ members perceive discrimination?"

then you said: "You’ve completely missed the point. The NBPA exists because discrimination is very real…", which is kind of what i said before you said it…then i said: "...and can a white officer join?..." at which point you said: "If the reason is not self evident then you really are a stupid, stupid man." i take the reason to be because he isn’t black – do black coppers behave differently to white ones?: and why do you assume that i am a man?. still, i remain tolerant of your intolerance and will stay above the name-calling to which you stoop. surely any political views will affect how anyone "sees their job". expression of opinion isn’t a crime, at least not yet. and why stop with sacking a few bnp nutters because their views are "intolerable"?. let’s go the whole hog and censure anyone whose ideas/ views/ whatever are "unacceptable": oh look, a massive great bonfire of books. very popular in germany & the soviet union once upon a time i believe, this sort of thing. the way to defeat extremism is at the ballot box, not through acting the same way as they do.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Well said Mario. I agree with most of what you say. I would throw in my tuppence worth by just saying World War 2 was not won at the ballot box.
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The best way to deal with extremists, is to mock and ridicule them. Few of them can stand being laughed at.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

that’s right agi: it was won because of the russian winter and the sacrifice of millions for the sake of [don’t laugh] "democracy".
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The Russian winter helped to shorten the war. Even without the entry of America and Russia into the war, it would probably have ended around 1947/48, because Germany would have run out of resources before Britain and the Commonwealth. See ‘The Turn of the Tide’ by Arthur Bryant, a summary of the diaries of Field Marshall Alanbrooke.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Mario!

The NBPA provides a support network for minorities in the police who may suffer discrimination. (Oh, and I don’t quite understand what you mean when you say "Percieved discrimination" Are you saying discrimination and racism doesn’t exist? It’s only ‘percieved’ to exist? wtf?)

They also Work towards improving the relationship between the Police and the minority community of the United Kingdom. They aim to improve the recruitment, retention and progression of staff members within the Police Service after, an alarming drop of ethnic staff from the force in the early 90’s….

The BNP on the otherhand are a far right political party who amongst other things:

"call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question."

and

"The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples"

That’s taken from their constitution.

Now why can’t you see the distinction between the two Mario? Why?

You say I’m intolerant? Well yeah…. When it comes to those who actively incite and condone violence towards others for no other reason than the colour of their skin or their beliefs, you better believe I have little tolerence. And that extends right across the board, whether it’s hate spewing forth from Nick Griffin, or Abu Hamza makes no difference to me. I hold both in equal amounts of contempt.

Oh, and I assumed your where a ‘man’ because I haven’t met many females who refer to themselves as Mario ;) Not even on ‘teh internets’!
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Why dont the members of the NBPA arrest those who are alleged to discriminate against then,after all they are policemen. If the Police Federation changed its’ name to the National White Police Association there would be holy hell to pay.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

but doesn’t the very existence of the nbpa create an air of seperateness and non-integration?. if we’re going to have "diversity" why not have an association of capricorn policmen, or whatever?. racism certainly exists: i have personal experience of being barred entry to a west yorkshire pub in the 1980’s because i am white. but the way to defeat / extinguish this sort of thing is through open debate and demonstrating the repugnance of these ideas. however, as the bnp is a legal & registered political party and if, as we are told:-), that we live in a democracy, then proscription of such parties, or extreme left-wing, or loony parties cannot occur: otherwise, where is the line drawn?.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"...I hope there will be many more sackings as a result of this list...": workers rights’, anybody?
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Mario: Most people assume you are male because your current and numerous previous pseudonymns.
Nutmeg Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Mario, minorities have often, and with good reason, formed associations to counter the discrimination they face. There are lots of women’s organisations, for instance. White males have never been discriminated against. By the way, I can recommend someone who can fix the shift key on your keyboard.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"White males have never been discriminated against.": really? do you have proof? please display.

"By the way, I can recommend someone who can fix the shift key on your keyboard.": clearly, you know NOTHING of bauhaus. my sympathies. or, buy a book of e.e. cummings.

"people assume you are male because your current and numerous previous pseudonymns.": how is greeninkloony, male?. or mindbeing?. are you jumping to conclusions based on appearance? [good grief?]
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

How about EddGee or EdddGeee?
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

singer eddie [ed] reader: so what?. is this sexism?
Nutmeg Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Mario, you’re sounding ridiculous.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote karl "c23 you are very hypocritical in your views, you spout freedom is only for those you agree with"

karl, you really should learn to read posts properly mate. I’ve said nothing of the sort. I’m all for freedom of speech and freedom of information. I’ve said that I would love to hear the BNP debate their policies openly in public. I wouldn’t condone any physical attacks on the people who have been outed as BNP members, I think that they have a perfect right to hold whatever views they want, odious though those views might be (to me at any rate, several of the jackboot fetishists on here might disagree). The charge of hypocrisy is best levelled at the BNP, who would happily hide behind Data Protection laws whilst wishing to God that they were in the position of knowing everythig about everyone. Because that is the nature of the fascist far right…total subjugation.

Of course, the BNP claim that they are not a fascist party. I would say that they should be given the opportunity to prove it. They won’t do so however, for the same reason that they would like to keep their membership list a secret. If they had nothing to hide, then they wouldn’t be so angry at the leak.

So karl, please let me make my position clear. I would not deny the BNP the freedom to say what they would like to say. I just wish that they would do it honestly and openly. If their members feel that they have a valid viewpoint, then express it openly. If you are a member of the BNP, then why not shout it from the roof tops?
Roberto Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Organisations like the Buffons Nazi Party will get more people looking towards them due to the failings of the 3 mainstream parties where subjects like immigration are concerned.

I would see the attraction of a party in government that would tackle things head on with both barrels, instead of using only token gestures in a misguided manner like the fools we currently have. The catastrophic situation of immigration is like a cancer to these overflowing islands and instead of removing the cancer with surgery or chemo, The government merely uses mild painkillers to ease the discomfort. They must tackle problems from the base of the root instead of just dressing up the flower.

I would not however give my support to a bunch of pub going footie hooligan nazi wannabe’s like the BNP. The term Half wit would be an understatement.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Mario, you’re sounding ridiculous.": i remain toleratant of your misguided views.

how would everyone feel if the names, addresses & occupations of yourmail users were published?. not many people use their real name: why not?
Nutmeg Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Some things you join because you’ll remain anonymous, and can say ridiculous or controversial things without being identified. Most people who join political parties don’t care who knows it.
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The charge of hypocrisy is best levelled at the BNP, who would happily hide behind Data Protection laws whilst wishing to God that they were in the position of knowing everythig about everyone. Because that is the nature of the fascist far right…total subjugation.

What a fool you are, you’ve described the Labour party to a T,
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Most people…" – so some do mind?. why?
Nutmeg Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Why? A few people are in posts in local or national government where it’s okay to be a member of a party but not to be active in it. They could find it difficult to be "outed" if their party wasn’t the ruling party. But mostly, it’s members of parties like the BNP who would rather keep their affiliation a secret.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

It appears that the use of the word ‘half-wit’ has now been approved for use on this forum. I used it in connection with the soap Crossroads to describe Benny & got a verbal from the moderators. I would be interested to know which other words have have now been approved for general use by the Watchers.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote: Theagitator "If the Police Federation changed its’ name to the National White Police Association there would be holy hell to pay."

I hate this "If there was a white version of this n that" line. It’s such a non-argument, and makes a mockery of the years of efforts by the civil rights movement to get issues of equality to where they are now. Don’t forget, the econmic stability and position of world influence we enjoy was only possible because we had ‘free labour’ and exploited that resource to make us rich.

And if you think we have reached the stage when minority groups enjoy the same status in the percieved judgment of the majority then your mistaken bro. And that goes for any minority group, be it racial, or sexist, or on the grounds of disability. It’s important groups (such as the NBPA) exist to support and ensure minorities are FAIRLY represented and treated within the workplace.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

And LOL at the BNP, who oppose the Human Rights Act and believe it should not exist, but are hoping to use it to prevent the publication of their members list. jokers :D
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

is membership of a political party a crime?.

"..Intelligence officers will infiltrate Far Right groups such as the BNP. ...will tap telephones, open mail, and scrutinise bank accounts and medical records. "We plan to close down these organisations by using every administrative device available to us, said a Yard source.". Daily Express 8/02/99.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote Mario " is membership of a political party a crime?."

No, of course not. But a political party which advocates policies which ignore the law of the land should expect to attract the attention of the intelligence community. It happened in the early 1970’s when far left groups such as the SWP and the CPGB were routinely monitored and infiltrated by the authorities. By your logic, you would be quite content to preserve the right to secrecy of any group which advocated the use of force to attain its political objectives.

The BNP is not a political party in the accepted sense of the term. They might be led by a Cambridge educated lawyer, and they might not employ the same street tactics that their predecessors did in the 1970’s, but scratch the surface and the same wishlist of torchlight parades, racial superiority and a well ordered railway timetable are still there.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Independent 27.05.2000

"An independent black political party would be supported by 45 per cent of the black community in Britain, research published this week will reveal.

The Black Community Report 2000, a national survey by the Peoplescience Intelligence Unit, has found that black people in the UK believe an "ethnic" party would improve their lives and their prospects."

is voting on racial grounds [either way] ever justified?
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Hi Tyler, so it’s ok to have a Black Police Association but not a white one. If I am correct the NBPA was formed volenterely, the Black Policemen were not expelled from the Police Federation. The conclusion I draw from this is that the Black Police did not wish to integrate into one unit. I’m afraid you can’t have it both ways.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

No of course not. Two wrongs don’t make a right and ethnic division will always lead to ethnic conflict. That’s why society should strive towards a situation where the racial background of any of its citizens should be immaterial. Which is why far right groups such as the BNP should be closely monitored…as should any political group which discriminates in its membership qualifications by virtue of colour, race or religion.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

‘ehtnic division will always lead to ethnic conflict’. Shall we then ban the NBPA & made all police join the Police Federation. This is starting to smack of your dammed if you do & dammed if you don’t. While there are these divisions the BNP will flourish & I’m sure no right thinking person wants that to happen. Would they?
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Agitator. There is no need to form a White Police association, as white males form the vast majority of the police, therefore suffer no prejudice on the basis of their ethnicity.

The NBPA was formed in the early 90’s in response to a loss of faith in the system which was resulting in falling levels of black staff.. after all if a career in the police commonly resulted in you suffering prejudicial treatment from colleagues, and being ostracized by the communities you represent, then that career is hardly going to appeal is it? The aim of the NBPA is to support the black minority, and also to help improve the relationships of black communities with the police force in general. Contrary to what you may think, the NBPA is actually about promoting EQUALLITY in the police.

Would you rather support networks for minorities did not exist? Would you rather less and less ethnic minorities look towards the police as a viable and rewarding career choice? Because surely this would only enhance the feelings of alienation within ethnic communities as they become ever more underrepresented in authority; The result of which would be further segregation and unrest.

Oh, and just one other point… I think it was Mario who asked if a white officer can join the NBPA, and form reading their constitution, the answer is actually yes:

“The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour. The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)”

So there :p
BobCarter Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Why the fuss? It seems that it is the BNP itself that is making the most fuss over this leaked membership list – why? Would any other political party be bothered if a membership list were published on the internet? The list is still available, and runs to over 2,000 pages with over forty members giving Hull addresses.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Seldom have I had the misfortune to read such a load of rubbish. If black is not a referance to skin colour, what is it a referance to? How many white policemen belong to the NBPA? The fact that two unions exist is in itself devisive. If Blacks or Asians wish to be accepted into mainstream society they must integrate.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Wow. I’m losing the will to live!

Agitator, UNISON and the NBPA are not mutually exclusive, in fact they work closely with each other. If racism is still a big problem within the force, which evidently it is, then I don’t see why a group set up to tackle it can be deemed a bad thing. comparing the NBPA to the BNP is absolutely ridiculous and merely highlights your ignorance. You’re clutching at straw here bro, and if I keep biting and reiterating the same points again and again, that makes me just as dumb as you…

So with that in mind, I’m off to get drunk. Au revoir dude ;)
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Lets hope I’ve caught you while still have the will to live. No where in my writings have I mensioned UNISON or BNP. My correspondance has concerned NBPA & the Police Federation. I seriously suggest that you read postings with care before you start flapping your gums. I hope your alcohol problem is under control. Booze will not solve your bad attitude. Good evening.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote thealligator "If black is not a referance to skin colour, what is it a referance to?"

It refers to common experience. I seriously suggest that you read postings with care before you start flapping your gums.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Now now dear, calm down. My comments were addressed to Tyler.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"In October 1996 with interest having grown across the country in the work of the BPA, a National Communication Network was formed. This network consisted of Black staff members spanning the length and breadth of the country. It was quickly realised that the only way forward was to form a national association, speaking with "ONE VOICE, STRENGTH IN UNITY". The country was then divided into three regions with a co-ordinator for each region.

In early 1998 officers and staff met with RT HON Jack Straw then Home Secretary to discuss the role of BPA’s. The meeting resulted in tangible support with regular meetings between Home Office staff and the National Communication Network.

In November 1998 the National Black Police Association became a reality when an interim executive was elected to take the association to launch. The executive committee was comprised of 14 executive members from 12 Constabularies."

"The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)"

"The BPA’s continue to grow nationally as do similar organisations within other public sector organisations"

NBPA website: nationalbpa.com

"The enemies of British Nationalism continue to parrot the claim that the BNP is a “racist party.” This claim is most often repeated because the BNP unashamedly addresses itself to the issues and concerns of the indigenous British population, and because it seeks to ensure that British people remain the majority population in this country. Opponents point to the fact that the BNP has an all-white membership, and that we address issues concerning white people.

If the BNP is racist for holding this position, then, we would suggest, all of the following organisations – some of them state funded – are also “racist” because they too address themselves exclusively to the issues and concerns of their respective communities:

1. Watford Asian Community care

2. Watford African Caribbean Association

3. National Black Police Association

4. Metropolitan Black Police Association

5. Black Londoners Forum

6. Black Information Link (BLINK)

7. Operation Black Vote

8. Federation of Black Housing Organisations (FBHO)

9. Black Training Enterprise Group

10. Southwark Black Heritage Organisation"

bnp website:bnp.org.uk

i take neither side here: i merely present information.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Very interesting. My question is why is any colour mensioned at all? This is what makes the whole thing devisive.
keef Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The release of the members list looks to me to be the work of the security services on behalf of the government, the government has made no secret in its desire to break the party, I guess by publishing the names will scare some people incase they lose there jobs etc, and thus this will have the effect of stopping most other people from becoming members of the party. If people are turning to the BNP its because the Government is failing the people concerned.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

the mainstream political parties should demonstrate to the public, through debate, how & why the bnp [or the extremist party of one’s choice] are wrong. that they seem reluctant to engage them in this way begs the obvious question.

as an aside to this:

The Times: 23.11.08

"Jacqui Smith, the home secretary, is to arm police with 10,000 Taser stun guns in an escalation of the government’s fight against violent crime.

Smith will unveil plans tomorrow that will enable all 30,000 front-line response officers to be trained in firing the electric guns at knife-wielding thugs and other violent suspects.

Smith said yesterday that £8m will be made available to all 43 police forces in England and Wales to buy the new 50,000-volt weapons.

She said their use will be extended from small units of dedicated firearms officers to up to 30,000 police response officers across the country."

when did the public become the enemy?. aux armes citoyens!
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

It’s a sad state of affairs when the forces of ‘law & order’ can shoot at the citizens, but the citizens are discouraged from shooting back.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Oh, Agitator, and I thought we saw eye to eye on many issues, obviously this is the one that reveals your ‘knotted hanky and egg-and-chips’ double-standards. And what about the efforts of William Wilberforce, what about Apartheid, what about the Gurkhas? Remember that the Empire is/was only as ‘great’ as it is due to the input of other nations to ‘integrate’. People like myself, asian married to a yorkshireman, know what its like to live in an area where even the local OFSTED report describes local children as being of ‘100% white heritage’ and there are some places I must travel to in this area which my husband reckons I am simply a lamb to a slaughter because of my skin colour. Its not MY perception, its reality. Yes I agree there is need for some integration, however, Agitator, there is also need to celebrate or at least accept diversity – you cannot ignore that I have a different skin colour to someone else or that I may wear different clothing. I am here because my indian father was born in a British colony in Africa and he immigrated to UK in the 70’s where he married my mum who is also indian. My parents have grafted here for everything they have and have ‘adapted’ and paid their dues all their lives. UK is my home. I was born and raised here. I follow the laws of this land. There is no one more patriotic than I am. What would I do should a political party decided to impose restrictions upon me on the basis of my colour or ethnicity? What about my young child? Never mind Black or White, what about the Grey areas? People who talk about asians having to integrate have spent the last 40 years burying their heads in the sand, playing polo in the Empire’s backyard patting themselves on the back for making the wild people civilised, wondering what all the fuss is about, not knowing how many ties an asian cornershop has been targeted by racist thugs, never having experienced racial bullying at school. I for one can see exactly why there is a need for organisations such as the NBPA. Just as I believe that all people, including pro-BNP, should have the freedom to have a political view, and parties should be able to debate on policies. HOWEVER, I believe that BNP-supporters who are in positions that are responsible for law and order, or indeed any job that requires an attitude of racial equality (education, healthcare,etc.) should start asking themselves whether they are going to lie to others or lie to themselves when they declare that their political beliefs will not influence decisions in their working lives.
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Kohinoor, can I please be the first to state the obvious? You’re a diamond! Excellent post!
China Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

applauds Kohinoor
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

While I agree with 99% of what you say, I still think having two police organisations is devisive. It is only the police issue that I disagree with. So we will just have to agree to differ. As a polo player, I do however take exception to your remarks about the game.
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Kohinoor: I agree with C23 on your post.

Have you changed your pseudonym to write it?
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Of course she has.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

don’t most jobs require "an attitude of racial equality"?. are decisions at work affected by political affiliations?. and, of course, people can vote for whoever they want regardless of occupation, whether or not they are card-carrying members of the BNP, Revolutionary Communist Party, or even the anti-semitic, racially separatist, New Black Panther Party For Self Defense [UK] .
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

By becoming a member of a political party you are publicly declaring your affiliations and beliefs. Or you can remain anonymous and simply cast a vote. From a civilian point of view, surely we should be aware that Big Brother will probably be watching you 24/7? From a government cog point of view, should we prevent these parties from becoming established, sending the supporters underground, creating more bitterness? I would rather have the devil I know than the devil I don’t. Let them have their party. But beware: each member must take responsibility for what happens when there is retaliation from other minority parties. And no I have no other pseudonym.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

by "retaliaton", do you mean anti-democratic suppression of free speech, or violence & intimidation?.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I hope that Kohinoor is not being threatening when she mensions retaliation from other parties. This is the first hint of violence in what has otherwise been a quite civilised exchange of views. Let us try & maintain our normal high standards of debate.
Eloise Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Doesn’t sound threatening to me, merely depressingly consistent. There’s already been a blown up car.

Feelings were bound to run high and I’m surprised this hasn’t run further. Is it because as well as having beliefs no-matter how extremwe we’re also human and have more in common than sometimes we would like to admit. or that people have taken the moral high ground and tried to be better in their actions than the people on the list?
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I’m suprised, shocked & amazed that you don’t think an exploding car is a threat to public order.
Eloise Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more as I said in my previous post. It’s interesting to me that there hasn’t been more ‘retaliation’, a point that’s probably missed by the list members themselves.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"retaliation" for joining a legal, registered political party?.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

There is no intention of ME being threatening; Agitator seems to over-analyse the words that I write. But, yes, in reality, if there is lack of confidence in the police service to treat people equally, and the law seems to permit establishment of such political parties, then the retaliation may take place in the form of other minorities also exercising their right to protest and the next thing is you have riots in the streets. One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Hi Kohinoor, what exactly are you saying? Give me a list of who you consider to be ‘freedom fighters’ & who you consider to be terrorists. Do you or do you not advocate people rioting in the streets to obtain what they want? Just to set the record straight, I am not a BNP member. I am afilliated to any political party. I am the original floating voter.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

does anyone "retaliate" against the anti-semitic socialist workers party blokes who are down whitefriargate most saturdays?. one of their recent leaflets seemed to deny the holocaust rather in the tradition of stalin, the well-known democrat and expunger of history.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Agitator, take your pick history is full of them. Depends on which side of the fence you sit on as to whom you call what. I value experience over philosophy. I do not advocate any violence. I suppose what you’re saying is right Mario, do the beliefs of these minority people really threaten my beliefs enough to want to do something about it? And the answer is no. Hey, I just wonder, if I am a British National – could I join the BNP?
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

dunno? could i join the NBPP[UK]?
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The Times: 26.11.08

"At least 80 people were killed tonight and 20 Westerners taken hostage as suspected Islamic terrorists mounted a series of co-ordinated attacks on India’s financial capital.

The gunman, armed with automatic weapons and grenades, targeted British and American tourists in the city’s luxury hotels and bars. They were reported to be holding Western tourists hostage at the Taj Mahal Palace, Bombay’s top hotel, where a group of British MEPs were staying."

freedom fighters or racists?
Chromosome23 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

If you’re a muslim fundamentalist, then you’d think of them as soldiers in the jihad.

Islam does not have anything to do with race. The umma of the Koran is intended to include everyone on the planet.

You’re the last person I would have expected to try to muddy the waters in this debate.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Firstly, it is too soon to comment on this recent event until formal confirmation by the Indian authorities can be made. Until then, suspicions cannot be facts, and there is no certainty right now that the British MEPs were actually the intended targets. Perhaps a new blog for this event may be appropriate, because I did not think this thread was about discussing ‘suspected islamic fundamentalists’ in an entirely different country Secondly, and coming back to our topic of debate, just as the British public was divided as to whether British troops should have been sent to liberate a foreign nation, the very people of that foreign nation are divided as to what the intentions of our troops are. Are our troops freedom fighters or terrorists? As I said, and I reiterate yet again with this yet another example, not all people share the same values or beliefs, it is extremely naive to expect this. I am beginning to wonder about the direction this thread is taking – which is nowhere, since Agitator and Mario seem to be doing nothing but what C23 is suggesting.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

No matter what the political of religious beliefs of the gunmen in Bombay(Mumbai) I think they can safely be described as terrorists. (Or freedom fighters depending on ones’ outlook.) So far the approximately 100 deaths include Hindus, Moslems & Christians. Never mind the semantics of debate, the fact remains 100+ people are dead
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

extremists are extremists, regardless. is "racism" restricted only to skin colour?
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

For that matter you could call America an extremist nation,

And "racial" is not the right word "discrimination" is more appropriate.
devilsadvocate Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I would probably join the BNP, call me a bigot if you will. I see the England I love slowly changing into something I don’t like. I know a lot of people who would agree with me but wouldn’t have the nerve to say it openly. I know I am laying myself open to a backlash. But so be it. Am I racist to say that I would like there to be fewer ethnic minorites in England? If I say that I dont want to walk into any estate and be a minority am I racist? (documentary on tv about an estate where there was only 1 white british person to 600 houses, can’t remember when it was) If I don’t want to be in any town where there are more mosques than churches am I racist? If I don’t want my children to forget what Christmas is and to be happy to promote it am I a racist? (Political correctness) The list is endless. If anyone is offended I apologise but feel I should be able to post.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

say what you like: freedom of speech. why should anyone be offended, unless they want to be?
slipperysnicker Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I agree whole heartedly with what devilsadvocate is saying. I dont agree with all this multi-cultural society rubbish. I think the government is messed up – give it 15-20 years and the English white person will be a minority in their own country!!
Robbo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I dont find what you’re saying offensive but I am curious about why you feel that way.

Why do you want fewer ethnic minorities?

And does it matter if there are more Mosques than Churches?

Why does the country of birth have any relevance on anything? I would like to move abroad eventually and I would like to be allowed to choose where I want to live without feeling like an intruder. I think everyone in the world should have that right providing you are respecting the laws of that country.
devilsadvocate Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Hi Robbo To be honest I believe that my country is a bit like my home, I am civil to my neighbours but I wouldn’t want them to move into my house. I am not saying that minorities don’t respect the laws of any country but the laws and policies are changed/amended over a period of time to suit minorities. Why did the immigrants come to England in the first place? I can only assume because we have/had a better standard of life. Why could they not attain that standard of life in their own original countries and stay there? Each time we allow for changes in favour of multi-cultural living we lose a bit of what made England the great country it was. We only have to look at the birth rate last year to see that the majority of non-white/non/british births has grown massively sometimes easily outnumbering white british births, in 18 years that would make a majority of voters non-white British. That scares me a great deal. I also realise that the fault is not often that of the people I am refer to, i.e. the person that posted earlier whose parents I think were Indian? It is mainly poor governmental policies and decisions. I am also not talking solely about coloured people (sorry I am sure sure which PC term to use) I refer to any immigrant and ethnic minority who have come to the UK in the last 100 or so years. I think what worries me is that I will one-day become a minority as per the post by slippery and this country will become like the very ones the present minorities flee from.
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I agree whole heartedly with what devilsadvocate is saying. I dont agree with all this multi-cultural society rubbish. I think the government is messed up – give it 15-20 years and the English white person will be a minority in their own country!!

If we are talking about racism, this is a prime example of a dyed in the wool racist, no tolerance whatsoever, the sooner this kind of attitude is driven out, the better this country will become,all the talk of terrorists is caused by fools like this, they don’t solve anything, only aggravate the situation.
slipperysnicker Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

KATZ49 – you are living in a dream world brainwashed by the government to think like that. Would you say the Indians that are looking for whites to kill in Mumbai are racist (todays news) ? How about if we tried to build an english cathedral in the middle of islamabad all bells and whistles and crosses?. Should we insist that whites in other countries have rules with their own set of laws like they are proposing in britain? wake up!!
Robbo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

There’s no call for a English cathedral in Islamabad. We dont really use the ones we’ve got over here! Mosques are built here because there is a need for them.

As for England being a great country? When was this? The only time that comes to mind was when we were willing to give our lives for the freedom of other countries, albeit with a view to preventing a greater threat to ourselves.

Other than that what great moments have had to be proud of? The Crusades? The colonisation of other countries? Our enthusiasm in the slave trade?

Why does it worry you if the majority of voters are not white? The majority will still be British. They may elect a Prime Minister with foreign ancestors but so what?

I can understand what you are saying about being protective about your home but for many non-whites in Britain, this is also their home. They were born here and they have as much right to live here as anyone else.

What would be your solution to this situation?
devilsadvocate Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

For me England was a great country for many reasons and we had much to be proud of. If England was/is not a good country why does everyone want to come here? Why travel around half the world to settle in this country if it is not great? I certainly don’t think people choose to come for the weather.

For example, Muslims in England, do you believe they should have their own courts and Sharia law to govern them? If a muslim was voted in as prime minister in 18 years would you be happy to be governed by these laws? Where do you draw the line between integration and invasion? I have begun to feel like a red squirel (for want of a better simile).

I answered the point about what worries me and why. I really didn’t want England to become what other countries are. However it is now too late. There is no solution.

I wanted to voice the other side of the argument. I appreciate that I lost the debate before it began, it was inevitable. But while I still have free speech I would like to use it.

It isn’t my intention to "incite racial hatred" or anything like it. The people who came here are not to blame. And you as you rightly say if they were born here this is their home.

I am simply trying to voice my opinion and how I feel.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"this is a prime example of a dyed in the wool racist": this is a prime example of accusing somebody of racism purely because they have expressed a view about multiculturalism, of which even Trevor Phillips [Head of the Commission For Equalities & Human Rights] is a vociferous critic fearing that it could result in segregation in britain’s cities. and i think that "...all the talk of terrorists…" has probably got something to do with british people blowing themselves up on london public transport.
karl Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Multiculturalism can only work with integration, this is not happening in this country, and like many other countries if you stray into the wrong area you dead, this country is heading that way. I think back to the 70’s we had a Indian family living opposite us, back then in Hull this was strange as there were not many foreign families. They were the only ones in the area, we got on, play cricket in the street, India v England, they integrated and everyone got on. This today does not happen, one race fears the other and no-one tries to come together, so the problem grows and mutates ordinary people into terrorist which only leads to more problems.
devilsadvocate Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

What if we don’t want multi-culturalism? Is that an option? Do I get a choice?
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

ask your mp.
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

What if we don’t want multi-culturalism? Is that an option? Do I get a choice?

You’ve already admitted its here and there is no solution,

Multiculturism is a world wide reality, and if you are against it you show yourself as a bigot, and a racist.

There are millions of non-whites, living their lives peacefully, bringing up their families, working to keep them, paying their taxes, living by our laws, you don’t have to listen to the government, you can see it with your own eyes,any who denies them a life in the country they chose, is a knuckle dragging idiot.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Multiculturism is a world wide reality": really? how diverse is the culture in say, china?

i think you’re confusing multi-racial and multi-cultural. you can see the results of multiculturalism in the z.u.s. areas of france or in indonesia, where teenage girls get beheaded on their way to school. as for multiracial society, most people couldn’t care less what colour someone is or where they are from. even the painfully liberal dutch government, following the murder of theo van gogh in 2004, stated that: ""For too long we have said we had a multicultural society and everyone would simply find each other. We were too naïve in thinking people would exist in society together."
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Why do you always find an instance of an exception to the rule, and pretend its going on everywhere.

Why no comment on the main point of the post. Do you actually know what the word culture implies,
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

ok: no, i am not a member of the bnp. if i was, i wouldn’t hide it. main post commented upon.

yes, i know what the word "culture" implies.

how is it that i am, worringly, able to find many exceptions to the rule?.

and i find it amusing that you speak of "non-whites" adhering to "our laws". so the law of the uk is for "us" and "non-whites" should adhere to them?: hhmmmm, sounds familiar…..
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

and i find it amusing that you speak of "non-whites" adhering to "our laws". so the law of the uk is for "us" and "non-whites" should adhere to them?: hhmmmm, sounds familiar

I used the word non-whites so you could understand, as it seems you have a problem with them, also, are you a citizen of this country, I am, so these are "our laws*, if you want to be pedantic, "this countries laws"

Do you really know what the word culture means, it has nothing to do with colour, as you seem to imply, why do you object to people of a different culture, the way they live their lives, what they eat, what they believe in, thats bigotry, even a fascist way of thinking.

I can imagine you as a "Keep Britain White" fanatic.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

oh dear. really, these juvenile outbursts do your argument no favours. i have only stated the views of many governments, including the current labour administration, the archbishop of york, the [pakistani-born] bishop of rochester even trevor phillips, the head of the commission for equalities & human rights who have all spoken out about the impracticality of multicuturalism and its faliure. and, regarding my wife, once again you are confusing multi-racial with multi-cultural. you seem to think that it is racist to even discuss these topics.

"Finally, there are questions about the debate itself. It will have considerably more value if we can be open and honest about the challenges we face. We must not be censored by political correctness, and we must not tiptoe around important issues.

"For example, it is clear that we need a controlled, well managed system of immigration that has clear rules and integrity to counter exploitation from the far right. I agree with the home secretary: it is not racist to discuss immigration and asylum."

Extract from a speech by Ruth Kelly: Community & Local Government Secretary, August 2006

oh, and btw: "Gibbons…, walk on their hind legs and can do so even when moving through trees." so you’re wrong there, aswell.

[www.warthai.org/Project/GRP/gibbonConservation]
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

anyway, much more important than a few bald-headed blokes in england football shirts, is the news that the police have arrested the conservative shadow immigration minister over embarrassing Home Office leaks. part of his job, in opposition, is to find out what the government are up to. he did, and found himself under arrest: his home & constituency house were searched along with his offices, computers etc. we are supposed to believe that both the mayor of london & the acting chief of the met knew, but not the prime minister or the home secretary. once they start arresting the opposition [itself, an offence of contempt of parliament by the police] we are in trouble. the thought police are here. all those peole who believe that "if you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" should be worried by this paranoid government. it makes you wonder if the "terrorism laws" with subsequent restriction on freedoms, is to protect this control freak govt. from the people. so we don’t find out what’s really going on
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"For example, it is clear that we need a controlled, well managed system of immigration that has clear rules and integrity to counter exploitation from the far right. I agree with the home secretary: it is not racist to discuss immigration and asylum."

Then you agree Multiculturism is the way to go,if you have immigration you must have Multicultutism, anything else is undemocratic, it becomes apartheid.

Multi-racial and Multi-culture go hand in hand, when the British people learn this, only then will this country become a peaceful place to live.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

You sound just like a record thats stuck in a groove. Give yourself & everyone else a break.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

the words you have quoted from my previous posting are those of ruth kelly, then the Community & Local Government Secretary, from a speech widely regarded as the government admitting that multiculturalism has failed.

BBC News:30.05.2006

"It is an uncomfortable conclusion from happiness research data perhaps – but multicultural communities tend to be less trusting and less happy."

"Research by the Home Office suggests that the more ethnically diverse an area is, the less people are likely to trust each other."

The Commission for Racial Equality has also done work looking at the effect of diversity on well-being.

Interviewed on The Happiness Formula, the chair of the Commission for Racial Equality, Trevor Phillips accepts that people are happier if they are with people like themselves.

"We’ve done work here which shows that people, frankly, when there aren’t other pressures, like to live within a comfort zone which is defined by racial sameness."

" Trevor Phillips believes we saw it all too clearly in the disturbances in the Lozells area of Birmingham in the Summer of 2005.

A tight-knit Asian community came into conflict with a tight-knit black community because, Phillips argues, the ethnicity that binds each community together is stronger than the links between them.

"You have two communities who more or less faced each other across a single road. They are communities which have high levels of internal bonding.

"But actually there wasn’t and is very little bridging between these two communities and I think this is a perfect demonstration of what happens when people who are very different, look very different and think they are very different never touch, never interact."

self-imposed apartheid it would appear to mr. phillips, it would seem. and the archbishop of york, the bishop of rochester, the government, immigrant communities themselves, etc etc etc. Which "British people" do you mean, by the way?
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The "British people" that refuse to accept immigrants as fellow citizens,
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

who are….?
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Don’t be naive Mario you know exactly what I mean.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

i may have many admirable qualities, but telepathy isn’t one of them. so….?
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Please explain Katz, as no one else knows what your on about.
Roberto Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quite easy to see why Hitler found it so easy to gain power in prewar Germany.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

yes you’re right roberto. resentment by the german people of the treaty of versailles, support from wealthy businessmen including Henry ["history is bunk"] Ford & Irenee du Pont, head of General Motors, scapegoating of the jews for germany’s ills, weak opposition, arrest of political opponents[!], and saying what everyone wanted to hear so they’d vote for him.
ArtH Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The BNP will not ever become the governing party, however they are needed in a democracy to express a point of view, which while most would not agree with, they have the absolute right to hold their views. To say otherwise is to void democracy itself.

I must say I am warming to them, judging from the Stalinist way New Labour and the sneering metropolitan liberal elite have deliberately ruined my country, I am very much inclined to give them a go to rattle people’s cages if nothing else.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

imagine the outcry if a hypothetical bnp government had arrested an opposition mp!.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote Devilsadvocate "Am I racist to say that I would like there to be fewer ethnic minorites in England?"

A lot of the BNP’s policies seem to operate under the notion that if you get rid of the immigrants, then you somehow eradicate poverty/crime and all the other negative aspects of society.

Yeah. Cos of course, before the blacks and the Asians and the like appeared, you never had young guys turning to crime. If only it wasn’t for them immigrants we’d be totally free of crime like in the days of yore?

... or not.

The thing is though there WAS NO GREAT NATION.

Even nazi Germany was better run that Victorian and Pre-War Britain. Kid’s were sent to work with no education and died of sickness and poverty scratching away on the floor of horrid cotton factories. The only people who made a decent living were land owners, factory owners and those who carpet-bagged their way out of this country. The average person was treated like dirt. Even up until the 1970’s normal state schools didn’t do academic subjects, meaning unless your parents were well off you were just fodder for the next war or production line.

Immigration brings a creative and cosmopolitan edge in fashion, food, the arts, architecture and entertainment. Most immigrants are of working age, which means they consume less of the services provided by the state, such as health care and education, they pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. Unemployment rose rapidly in many EU countries during the 1980s when immigration was stable. Huge migration from Europe to America in the late 19th century boosted the growth rate in the US, and contributed to its economic take-off…. Countries such as ours with ageing populations need to import immigrants to produce the wealth that will keep our standard of living high… and I would also point out that in the political-right’s much vaunted model of Australia, 25% of it’s citizens are foreign born…

Quote Devilsadvocate "For example, Muslims in England, do you believe they should have their own courts and Sharia law to govern them?"

It’s only an extreme minority who want Sharia Law, and they will never get their wish. Just like the BNP or the National Front will never get theirs. Yet certain sections of the media with an agenda hype the views of these fanatic idiots up as a representation of whatever section of the population they are looking to demonise.

Quote Devilsadvocate "If I don’t want my children to forget what Christmas is and to be happy to promote it am I a racist? (Political correctness) "

Which ethnic organisations actually call for the abolition of Christmas? When you look at the source of most of these suggestions, they actually come from PC groups who are afraid of causing offence, rather from the ethnic groups who are supposed to be offended. Again though, the right-wing media stir these stories up as ‘erosion of our identity’ and all that nonsense.

On that note, what British values do you feel are being eroded exactly? For many, British culture seems to represent getting drunk, fighting, and sexual cheapness, so it’s of little surprise other cultures are keen to embrace it. Besides, from my experience the people who complain of losing their national identity are people who do very little to celebrate their heritage anyway…

If there is fear that other cultures are going to erase our national identity, we should ask ourselves one important question. What exactly are we trying to assimilate people into? If our culture is weak enough to be overrun, why is that? If the UK is open to cultural conquest, it may not be so much because of the strength of other cultures, but the weakness of our own.

What I keep thinking whenever i here these right-wing views is, specifically the point about British heritage – WHY does it matter? WHY does the fact your ancestors have been here longer than other people have any significance? It all seems pretty arbritary to me.

The concept of "Britishness" is a bit of a fuzzy one, particularly if you base it on how long your ancestors have been here. How many generations of UK-living ancestors does someone have to have before they’re British? If an ethnically Asian guy’s grandparents lived in the UK, is that good enough? What about if his great grandparents did? What affect would this have on HIM anyway? It’s not changed his DNA, and culturally he’s brought up in the UK. So why isn’t he British? Because he isn’t white?

There are several examples of immigration working successfully, most notably America, which was essentially founded on that principle. And the fact that the excuse often given "oh maybe in the past, but NOW we have to stop" – people have said that for decades. Just like people always make out NOW is the point that we need to take action because society is falling apart. It’s perpetually on the brink, apparently.

Only of course it isn’t. That’s just how it is. The disharmony and friction that are painted as signs of the impending trouble are always there…they’re just hijacked by people who want to put across their views, and neatly avoid the fact that the past doesn’t really fit with what their saying. So of course the previous decades of immigration, that’s one thing, but NOW it can’t work. Well, that’s just not true. I think we can take more in, sure.

It makes absolutely no sense, from an economical point of view, or a social point of view, or even a moral point of view, why the world should be more segmented as it develops on a global scale. So it’ll keep happening. No doubt the same voices predicting doom will still be predicting the same doom in the future, or saying that race war is imminent…but thankfully, it doesn’t matter.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"It’s only an extreme minority who want Sharia Law, and they will never get their wish".

The Times.14.09.08 article by Abul Taher

"The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court."

"Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “I think it’s appalling. I don’t think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state.”

"Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996. There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men."

"Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts."

where do you stand on womens’ rights?
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote Lord Chief Justice OF England "Lord Phillips said: "There is no reason why sharia principles, or any other religious code, should not be the basis for mediation or other forms of alternative dispute resolution.

"It must be recognised, however, that any sanctions for a failure to comply with the agreed terms of mediation would be drawn from the laws of England and Wales."

He added: "There can be no question of such courts sitting in this country, or such sanctions being applied here. So far as the law is concerned, those who live in this country are governed by English and Welsh law and subject to the jurisdiction of the English and Welsh courts."

He makes it quite clear that English and Welsh laws remain absolute. there’s no reason why Sharia principles, just like those Jewish ones which have long been part of English law, should not be the basis for mediation or other alternative forms of dispute resolution. It makes no difference to us. Calm down.

There is no reason why Sharia principles cannot be used to settle marital or financial disputes, as long as they don’t conflict with English law. AS ENGLISH LAW MUST REMAIN ABSOLUTE. So under that premise what exactly is the problem if muslim couples prefer to to have their personal disputes settled by a Sharia scholar?

No one is advocating Sharia law overiding English law, or even running it parallel. Ultimately everyone is subject to the jurisdiction of the English & Welsh courts, and that’s never going to change.
Colombo Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Not unlike members being subject to the rules of a club or trade union, then.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

i am well calm. the point is that the jewish beth din tribunals are like a voluntary arbitration service whereas the extant sharia courts make rulings that are enforcable, in law, through the british legal system and which treat women as a 2nd class person. so some british citizens have fewer rights than others.

" Faizul Aqtab Siddiqi, a barrister and principal of Hijaz College Islamic University in Warwickshire, not only predicted a formal network of Muslim courts within a decade but imagined such courts dealing with crime: “I was speaking to a police officer who said we no longer have the bobby on the beat who will give somebody a slap on the wrist. So I think there is a case to be made under which the elders sit together and reprimand people, trying to get them to change.”

Times 2.12.06
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Mario.

This is taken from the same article you quoted:

"provided that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case. "

So even there it states that disputes settled by a Sharia scholar is entirely voluntary.

It doesn’t help the debate when you only present information that supports your argument, while ignoring that which negates it.

I need to bow out of this thread (again) as I’m falling behind with my college work lol, but perhaps if you look at some of these facts from a different angle you might begin to see a different picture. Don’t just read these points straight away with a view to rebutting them. You’re starting with your conclusions and fitting the facts into your assumptions to make them fit. And then just dismissing arguments without really getting to the heart of what is being critiqued about your opinion.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Katz, Robbo, Roberto and Tyler, I was trying to compile a comprehensive reply to Agitator and Mario, but you guys have done a really good job in conveying my sentiments exactly. I explained in my very 1st post, my indian Dad was born in a british colony in Africa and has a british passport since birth. Would someone (Agitator/Mario) care to explain how he came to be assigned british nationality since he is a very dark-skinned indian? Does the BNP’s definition of ‘White’ refer to all caucasians? I do not understand how the democratic election of a prime minister whose personal faith is islam will lead to the introduction of Sharia law running the nation? Sir Winston Churchill’s mother was american so I suppose Our Nation’s greatest statesman didn’t really belong to ‘Our Nation’, then?! My parents worked damn hard, never claimed any job benefits, I never saw my father drunk, and they saved up money like mad – not to mail it ‘back home’, but to buy a shop with help of a few relatives who agreed to lend them some money at the same rate of interest that the bank would have offered – had the bank had the confidence to back them and not declined to lend them the money. My parents generated new jobs and paid loads in income taxes over the years. My Dad always gives us the anecdotes of having come to this country ‘with just one suitcase and three pounds in my pocket’, in the hope that this will inspire his children to do the same. My parents struggled, and their parents struggled, OK: so that their children got a ‘better’ education. They worked all the hours and did jobs no one else wanted to do. I remember my grandma doing work from home assembling bits for the inside of TVs – I was only 7 and I helped her as well because the more pieces she did the more she got paid. She did not even know how to read or write in her own language, but was such a cheerful person and she got by with a few choice English phrases (mostly the rude kind that the youths in her day would scream at her) and some kind of pidgeon-type broken english. But there isn’t just immigration to Britain – there is also emigration from Britain to other countries. So why are Brits moving to UAE, Spain, Australia, etc. and not emigrating to North Korea, China or Russia instead?! Would one of the many reasons be that the Brit migrants are not enticed by the standard of living there, Agitator? Would another reason be that the Brits are not wanted there? This leads me to another issue: one of the UK enticing the super-geniuses of the developing nations to immigrate here because of better pay than they would get if they remained in their native countries. For example, drugs companies have been doing it for years. How good would our NHS actually be if it were not for foreign national surgeons and scientists that work here in the UK, developing new drugs and innovations that will help all the citizens of Britain? Where does one draw the line? It seems like double-standards to me.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

the settlement of disputes may be voluntary, but the rulings can be enforced by the courts. so, one group of british citizens, in this case muslim women, have fewer rights than other british citizens. gosh, how libertarian is that?. so any community that decides it doesn’t fancy "relating to british law" to paraphrase the archbishop of canterbury, just sets up a tribunal, decides what it wants and then gets the courts to enforce it.
China Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I wonder if cries of "illegal immigrants" were heard when the Vikings invaded. I have, in the past, had a year when myself and my family were targetted by some youths with more mouth than sense but I would never claim to know what it’s like to be subjected to continual racial abuse from ignorant people. More empathy would make the world spin a little smoother methinks.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

absolutely. empathy and understanding via communication & debate.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Over many years I have lived in various countries, mostly for work related reasons. A few have been ‘third world’, but most have been equal to or better than the UK for living standards etc. Personally I have no problem with applying a double standard as long as its to my advantage. This is known as real life. My loyalty lies with my own family first & foremost, the rest of the world is way down the list.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

well, to me it’s a bit like going to live in france but insisting on driving on the left "because that’s what we do".
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Funny you mention the Vikings, China. And quite rightly so. Incidentally, my English father-in-law recently went to his doctors with a soft-tissue swelling complaint. He was told that it was a condition that was common for Vikings to get, so there must be a trace of Viking ancestry to him. So does this mean that he is, according to the BNP, a foreigner, bleeding the NHS and this country’s other resources dry, for all these years?! Agitator seems to be clarifying his true loyalties, which will probably the case for a lot of people. So, if that attitude can be justified for emigrants, why can’t it be justfiable for immigrants to make their way here? Oh and the other thing, Mario: if the BNP have’nt managed to enforce any rules they might want to have imposed – and of course they must know how the legal system works ‘cos they have been around the longest and it was their ancestors that set up this great nation – then there’s fat chance of any other ethnic/minority being able to do the same for themselves. Don’t also forget that certain business and industrial arenas here in the UK have major players that come from ethnic minority groups. Trying to impose unequal sanctions on them will simply mean they will take their business elsewhere. For example look at the number of US actors who said that if Obama didn’t get elected they would out of the country. Be careful what you wish for.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Can anyone explain, in the name of all that’s holy, what exactly the flawed diamond is going on about? He appears to keep trying to have a go at me, which is fair enough, but if I have a go back we can be certain he will squeal racism & possibly have a fit.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

the bnp, as far as one can tell, are not a religion. the sharia courts that exist in britain, dispense religion-based rulings that drive a coach & horses through, for example, hard-won women’s and gay rights legislation. what about the seperation of church and state?. what i wish for, is a fair society for all, not one based on 12th century absolutist ideologies. and china, if you check out alcuin of york’s letters to ethelred, king of northumberland you’ll see that he was a bit miffed. but then one can’t really apply contemporary concepts to a 9th century invasion, in the same manner that 12th century crowd control has no place in the 21st century.
Kohinoor Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Please Agitator, speak your mind, this is an open and fair debate. What gives you the impression that I am likely to ‘squeal racism’ to whatever you have to say? If you consider yourself a racist then you have that prerogative! Surely the Agitator is not becoming the Agitated?
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Nowhere on this forum, during the months I’ve been agitating, have I ever expressed a racist view. You have just accused me of racism & then pretend to adopt the attitide of the injured innocent.

So, please, point out my ‘racist’ views to me. I’ll also take the liberty of informing you that I’ve spent the last 40 years working with Indian & Pakistani nationals at sea & in many countries including the sub-continent & Arabia. The fact that my first loyalty is to myself & my own family in no way takes away my respect for these fellow workers.

Not that it has any bearing on anything, but one of my adopted step-daughters is an Indian national married to a Singapore citizen of Indian descent. So my friend, never judge a book by its cover & don’t open your silly biased mouth until you have all the facts.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I know it may not appear so, but that is the longest spiel I have written on this forum. I am usually the soul of brevity. Let us hope it has not fallen on fallow ground.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

quote tylerdurden7238: "Even nazi Germany was better run than Victorian and Pre-War Britain".

quote katz49 [from another post]"Zionism is based on domination, and claiming that the middle east belongs to them and they will do anything to further that aim, they will slaughter anyone that gets in their way, they consider the palestinians little more than vermin. They are worse than the Nazis."

i have nothing else to say
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

If those who are defending the BNP truly support their policies of closing our borders, deporting immigrants, opposing inter-racial relationships, and repatriation of all non white nationals, then I’m truly disgusted, and embarrassed for you.

If they are NOT defending the BNP’s policies, but defending their freedom of speech, then fine…

What gives these BNP pricks any weight in the first place is the fact that when they cause offence by spouting their horrid racial bile, they immediately play the victim and cry that their freedom of speech is being surpressed.

There is a valid argument for allowing them all the freedom they want – Take away their sense of injustice and all your left with is a few outdated politically impotent wierdos incapable of recruiting anyone on a mass scale…

I think it was Columbo who said earlier that the best way to deal with extremists is to mock and ridicule them, and maybe I agree.

Although that said, those that defend the BNP’s freedom of speech must also extend the same courtesy to the equally extreme opposing end of the political spectrum I.e Peachers of hate. True freedom of speech is not a one way thing; you can’t allow one extreme point of view because it fits with your own blinkered view, you must also allow those that are diametrically opposed, however abhorrent they may be.
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

quote katz49 [from another post]"Zionism is based on domination, and claiming that the middle east belongs to them and they will do anything to further that aim, they will slaughter anyone that gets in their way, they consider the palestinians little more than vermin. They are worse than the Nazis."

i have nothing else to say

I doubt that very much, or whether you understood the post.

Zionism is to the Jewish religion, what Al QUeda is to the Muslim religion.
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

blimey! you’re right!

"They are worse than the Nazis". in what way?
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

1: how are the israelis "worse" than the nazis?

2: ""Even nazi Germany was better run than Victorian and Pre-War Britain". in what way?
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

KATZ49

The point was in relation to free speech: if you allow the BNP to promote to what many seem as extreme values, then logically you have to also allow the polarised extreme.

I don’t hide my opinions on the BNP. Intolerence of racism is good. I condemn it without reservation. and I applaud anyone else who condemns it. Judging someone on the basis of their ethnicity is sauch a bad indicator of their character.

Seriously, forgive the hippyness, but why not just judge each person on their own personality (and how fit they are if they’re a girl innit)?
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

""Even nazi Germany was better run than Victorian and Pre-War Britain". in what way?"

Health? Germany had arguably the most powerful anti-tobacco movement in the world. Social Welfare? The construction of the Autobahn was the first freeway system. Economy? Germany had the most rapid decline in unemployment in any country during the Great Depression…

Don’t just take my word for it tho Mario. Research it. Don’t just leave the work to me. You never know… you may be able to offer a cogent rebuttal of one of my arguments that doesn’t involve just asking questions or selective quoting.

Otherwise just give it up. Accept you where made to look a little foolish in this thread. It happens. Dust yourself off and move on kid. You can’t be a forum hero all the time you know ;)
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

i’m not trying to be a "forum hero" whatever that is, just entertaining myself between mugs of tea. i’m just surprised that the incarceration of political opponents & subversives in concentration camps, the use of forced labour, Aktion T4, the establishment of extermination camps, forcible sterilization of 400,000 people all bestowed by a beneficial one-party dictatorship is outweighed by a few prototype motorways, which in any case were built to enable the swift movement of armour to implement hitlers’ expansionist foreign policy. and the economic miracle that eradicted unemployment involved the removal of women from the statistics, jews becoming non-citizens post-1935 and the stark choice between working or being labelled "subversive", and a swift train ride to oblivion. plus of course the introduction of conscription and the building of armament factories. oh, and the working week was increased to 70+ hrs a week and strikes were illegal. happy days.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Congratulations on what must be the longest sentence on this post. Heed not the mockers, you will always be a ‘forum hero’ to me. A beacon of light in a sea of mediocrity. I mean that most sincerely.
KATZ49 Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Don’t look now but he needs another bob in his electric meter.!!
ArthurLager Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

yawn….anyway, in what way[s] are the israelis "worse than the nazis?"
Roberto Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Funnily enough the "Racism" card is drawn out and shown far too often these days. If someone disagrees with anyone who may be different in a minor way, then instead of the focus being purely on the subject matter of the disagreement, it turns into what is always described as racially motivated.

The hippies and uberliberal wierdo’s have done for this nation, and in fact the world. The indiginous people of many western countries are now the ones being repressed if they show any signs of having pride in their origins. Usually this repression comes from their own governments as a result of the media’s propaganda.

Our very own government has in fact put many Britons at high risk when travelling through western europe due to their inability to tackle the ever growing illegal immigrant problem. Instead of looking at the root cause of this mass migration, they choose to hide the reality and even arrest other MP’s who are looking out for the nations interest.

As an HGV driver put under the risk of losing my life in order to earn an honest living, I do think it is time that the government review the firearms laws so that all HGV drivers are legally entitled to carry and use sidearms when neccessary.
Roberto Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

or at the bare minimum legalise Tazer stun guns.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

In order to obtain a firearms licence in the UK your Doctor has to declare that you are sane. The reason you state for requiring a firearm would preclude you from obtaining one legally. No bad thing perhaps.
theagitator Submitted 7 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Good evening Kohinoor. Would I be correct in assuming that your silence of the last 48 hours indicates some form of apology for the aspersions that you cast on my character? Or is it because you are too proud to admit your error? Somehow I suspect it is the latter. You are indeed a flawed diamond.
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I am not sure we should be unduly scared that there are 14,000 BNP members. However, judging by the experience of some Councils whioh have enjoyed BNP Councillors, we should be quite concerned if many of them are elected to any kind of Government, since , unlike Mussolini they don’t make the trains run on time, or empty dustbins. As for education, one can only shudder.

They appear to be driven by a single issue and mind boggling incompetence or indifference to all others.

Once they had achieved their goal of expelling the immigrants, the real fun would begin- what on Earth would they find to do?

If our country is to prosper again we need scientists, inventors, and engineers, not posturing windbags with half- baked diplomas in history or social theory and limited experience of the wider world.

However, we remain, to an ever diminishing degree, a free country?
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!
If Zionism is worse than the Nazis, how is it that many demographers anticipate that Palestinians will in the not too distant future Such a loathsome task is best left to their brother Muslims- they are much better at it…
```
Zionists have held the land of Israel for 60 years. If they are to be compared with Nazis, Isn't it time they pulled their fingers out and started killing  a few thousand?
```
Gaza is not only conspicuously inhabited by Palestinians, who when not killing each other, let off a few rockets in the general direction of Israel, but is now not even occupied by Zionists anyway. Some Nazis, these Zionists! How many Londoners were killed by Nazis and how many by Zionists? Just wondering…
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

If Zionism is worse than the Nazis, how is it that many demographers anticipate that Palestinians will outnumber Israelis in the not too distant future Such a loathsome task of liquidation as is attributed to the Zionists of liquidation is best left to their brother Muslims- they are much better at it…

Hamas versus Fatah is making a good start in only 2 years- they will overtake the Zionists in a lot less than 60 years at present killing rates - even without outside "fraternal assistance".

Zionists have held the land of Israel for 60 years.

If they are to be compared with Nazis, isn’t it time they pulled their fingers out and started killing a few thousand? Gaza is not only conspicuously inhabited by Palestinians, who when not killing each other, let off a few rockets in the general direction of Israel, but is now not even occupied by Zionists anyway.

Some Nazis, these Zionists! How many Londoners were killed by Nazis and how many by Zionists? Just wondering…

Next time you visit an airport- do you truly fear Zionists more than their enemies? I thought not.
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

If Zionism is worse than the Nazis, how is it that many demographers anticipate that Palestinians will outnumber Israelis in the not too distant future Such a loathsome task of liquidation as is attributed to the Zionists of liquidation is best left to their brother Muslims- they are much better at it…

Hamas versus Fatah is making a good start in only 2 years- they will overtake the Zionists in a lot less than 60 years at present killing rates - even without outside "fraternal assistance".

Zionists have held the land of Israel for 60 years.

If they are to be compared with Nazis, isn’t it time they pulled their fingers out and started killing a few thousand? Gaza is not only conspicuously inhabited by Palestinians, who when not killing each other, let off a few rockets in the general direction of Israel, but is now not even occupied by Zionists anyway.

Some Nazis, these Zionists! How many Londoners were killed by Nazis and how many by Zionists? Just wondering…

Next time you visit an airport- do you truly fear Zionists more than their enemies? I thought not.
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Of course, I must concede that, unlike the Zionists, the Nazis were never accused of having caused the 2004 Asian tsunami, or Hurricane Katrina.

It only took the Al Usba newspaper in Egypt 8 days to reveal the True Cause ( Zionism) of the great tsunami!

We have advanced a little since the Mediaeval Black Death, when it took a few months for people to see "The Truth". Gosh they were slow in those days…
ArthurLager Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

it would appear that anti-semitism is the acceptable face of racism.
KATZ49 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

it would appear that anti-semitism is the acceptable face of racism.

That is pure lack of understanding, You cannot class Israel as the true face of the Jewish religion, to speak against the Jewish religion is anti-semitism, to speak against Israel is to speak against terrorism,

They need a lesson, and should retire back to their original borders.
Chromosome23 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote KATZ49 "They need a lesson, and should retire back to their original borders."

Which would be where exactly? The 1948 borders which were attacked almost immediately? Or maybe the borders of the old Jewish Pale in Eastern Europe?
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I think KATZ49 means the pre-1967 borders? But there was no peace pre 1967. Pre 1948, there was no Jewish State, but no peace either, except in the mass graves in Nazi Occupied Eastern Europe. Many consider this to resemble Tacitus’ peace of the Caesars, a desert mis-named peace.

Pre 1967 could be a good settlement, and many would go for it- but not, inter alia, the President of Iran…

Withdrawal from Gaza- long desired as part of a withdrawal, is a fact- but has not brought any reward for either party. The omens, I fear, are not good.

A Palestinain Free State of Gaza plus another Palestinian Free State on the West Bank ought to bring Israel peace, since she would have complied with her obligations as laid down by the UN- but the resulting fratricidal war between the two Palestine States would be an unedifying spectacle, and far bloodier than anything the squeamish Zionists could cook up.

The fact is, the situation is a complicated mess, which is too far gone to admit of simple solutions, and phrases like "worse than the Nazis" add more heat than light
Kohinoor Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Going back to Agitator, who accused me of wanting to ‘squeal racism’ and who is accusing me now of actually calling him a racist, isn’t it lovely to find that he is part of the cliched ‘my-best-friend-is-coloured’-gang!
theagitator Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Good Evening Kohinoor. Flapping the gums again are we. Please let me reassure you that while I may have some relations by marriage from the sub-continent the are by no stretch of the imagination ‘best friends’. You have still not made me aware of the supposed racist comments you alledge I am responsable for. I respectfully suggest that you put up or shut up as you are becoming very tiresome with your accusations.
Kohinoor Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I have re-read my previous posts,Agitator,and I cannot see where I have alleged you have made racist comments. As for my absence the past few days, this was due to a faulty laptop charger cable if you must know because you clearly seem to have missed me. May I indulge in being respectful by return when I suggest that you utilize your spell-checker every once in a while, or will this result in another grand response? A person such as yourself, with your ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude cannot possibly understand the concerns of others who may potentially be disadvantaged by the constitution policies of the BNP. I was in South Africa 15 months after the lifting of Apartheid, on a business trip visiting a major manufacturing company. A black employee told me that during Apartheid there were park benches where ‘birds could s@@t on them but blacks couldn’t sit on them’. And the english and dutch (white) upper management staff spoke of having lived in S.A. for 20 years while the rich pickings were easy, but alas would be going ‘back home’ to the UK (or Netherlands)because the taxes were going up so that the liberated blacks could all get an education. What would the BNP make of this lot suddenly returning to the UK, when they have not contributed to the UK economy for so many years?
Chromosome23 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Kohi, don’t take thealligators comments quite so much to heart. He has one aim on this forum, and that is to wind people up, he’s even admitted as such. Almost all of us have been taken in by him at one point or another, I guess that he enjoys the reaction. Best advice is to ignore him, or better still, have a good laugh and play him at his own game.
theagitator Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Hi Kohinoor. You appear to have some problem with reading my posting on this site. Nowhere have I said or claimed that I support in any way the BNP. You strike me as a person with quite a large chip on their shoulder, who finds it impossible to admit they have made a mistake. Rather than carry on with this increasingly pointless discussion, I think it would be better to draw a line under it & go our separate ways.
KATZ49 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Pre 1967 could be a good settlement, and many would go for it- but not, inter alia, the President of Iran…?

I didn’t realise you were a confidant of the President, when is your next meeting.
KATZ49 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

A Palestinain Free State of Gaza plus another Palestinian Free State on the West Bank ought to bring Israel peace, since she would have complied with her obligations as laid down by the UN- but the resulting fratricidal war between the two Palestine States would be an unedifying spectacle, and far bloodier than anything the squeamish Zionists could cook up.

But that would be the Palestians deciding their own future without the interference of Israel,

Incidently it would serve the Israeli’s right if they were pushed back to the 1948 borders.
ArthurLager Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"They need a lesson, and should retire back to their original borders." hahahahahaha. do you mean "go back where they came from?" hahahahaha.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The contentious part of the Israel creation story aint even about displacing people from ‘their land’ as religious or ehnic claim to land is a redundant definition in the republican model the world has gravitated towards – its about displacing people from their homes and communities.

I have no ethnic claim to Hull – But if somebody came and displaced me destroying my home in the process I would want to resist and revolt….especially if they compounded the issue by not compensating my loss by way of remuneration, dispensation or at bare miniumum compassion for my plight.

Only solution I can possibly see is for Israel to contract its borders to a size proportional to its population and ‘argricultural needs’ lol – and for the key religious sites to be deemed as principalities governed by the UN. Also for migration into Israel for citizenship to be restricted using the criteria that the west employs.

Contention over Jerusalem will allways be a consistancy in our world whilst judaism/christianity and islam all exist – so the only real solution given that these religions are not going anywhere, is to disassociate the place from any one religon.
TylerDurden7238 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"But that would be the Palestians deciding their own future without the interference of Israel,"

A major problem for an independant Palestine atm is the power struggle between Fatah and Hamas as to who exactly is the voice of the Palestinians .

The international response to Hamas’ election has made the already difficult conditions in the occupies territories worse. The withholding of financial aid from the US and EU, and the unlikeliness of the Isrealis dealing with Hamas to arrange fuel deliveries and power supplies means that the Palestinian economy is crippled… and that’s on top of decades of occupation.

An independant Palestine is desirable, and should be achieved. But Akhenaten is right to think it will be a messy and brutal process.
ArthurLager Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"...disassociate the place from any one religon." wot…like Mecca, like?
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"go back where they came from?"

If that were to happen all over the world I wonder where I’d end up! :)
ArthurLager Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

ultimately, you’d end up at the big bang i suppose, along with everything else in the universe, coming as it does from a single source :-)
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The President of Iran has on many occasions stated that the State of Israel has no right to exist at all, and should disappear from the map; a mere retreat by Israel to pre 1967 or even 1948 borders would hardly seem to fit the bill. So I have a degree of confidence that any Palestinian leader brave enough to sign a peace deal with Israel would be well advised to watch his back.

I admit that I have not met Mr Ahmadinejad, but he has spoken, and Israelis, like Jews, have learned always to heed the words of their enemies..that way avoids disappointment.

Until Iran changes this stance, in public, there is almost zero chance that Israel would make all the necessary withdrawals peacefully ; as for coercion the risks, as I have suggested, are too great – one false move, and the Earth becomes a blasted heath. The operation might be successful- pity about the patient.

In the long run, things would be a lot easier if the peoples of the region adopted either one common Faith( NOT Judaism, Christianity, or Islam) or none at all! (Epicureanism could do well as a non-faith).

Then Jerusalem could be freed from its sectarian baggage.

The One Faith which could heal the wounds is almost laughably self-evident, as any visitor to Haifa knows. The Bahai Faith, founded in 1844, is Religion’s answer to Esperanto, and subsumes all the previous Creeds of the Book. The Faith’s adherents believe that over the next 100 years the world will come, firstly, to the Lesser Peace( an absence of war) and eventually to One World, One Faith.

But, given the history of Esperanto-another simple, and logical attempt to end those divisions due to language-we would need a vast leap of Faith!

The other route,an adoption of natural philosophy, without Revelations from Books could achieve the same end. Any God or Universal Spirit should be as abstract, and "inaccessible" as possible if we are to avoid the kind of tribal pestilences the last few millennia have produced. Spinoza and Einstein expressed the idea well enough.

Perhaps the "other" Akhenaten was right after all. Atenism was a religion, but depended on natural phenomena. No-one disputes the existence of the Sun, and His ways are well explored by astronomers and physicists. The original suffered from too many priests, but our solar observatories, astrophysicists, and particle physics labs could fulfil some of the same roles but in a more enlightening and edifying manner.

WE would also , with the passage for 33 centuries , not require the peculiar personality cult which Atenism’s Founder, Akhenaten , brought with him.

Yes, I know I am attacking "myself" but sometimes small sacrifices have to be made, as the gliding pioneer Otto Lilienthal remarked from his hospital bed.

The Sun is also superbly indifferent to human sectarian interests, and should be difficult to hijack.

I commend this motion to the Sons and Daughters of Abraham, Ishmail, et al!
KATZ49 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

The President of Iran has on many occasions stated that the State of Israel has no right to exist at all, and should disappear from the map; a mere retreat by Israel to pre 1967 or even 1948 borders would hardly seem to fit the bill. So I have a degree of confidence that any Palestinian leader brave enough to sign a peace deal with Israel would be well advised to watch his back.

Any country that terrorises their neighbours, should be taught a lesson, if it means removing it from the map, so be it.

Creating the state of Israel in its present location was extremely foolish, that is fairly obvious now, the Zionist doctrine says the Middle East is all theirs, that attitude was the same kind of mantra that Hitler used, but he had bigger ambitions, he wanted the world, Elimination was the only answer, and the Israel problem is heading that way. Remove Isreal from the equation, and its down to internal squabbles.
Robbo Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Any country that terrorises their neighbours, should be taught a lesson, if it means removing it from the map, so be it."

Thankfully, with the exception of Ireland and Scotland, we always prefered to terrorise countries much further afield.
Akhenaten Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Try to remove Israel from the equation , and the whole region glows in the dark. That is the real difficulty for the enemies of Zion. Meanwhile, it would be crop failures for the rest of us. Not worth the price…
Saturn5 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Knotted hanky and eggs and chips double standards"?

What a frightful snob you sound Kohinoor!!
Roberto Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I notice that the NATIONAL FRONT have a box to tick on the ballot paper for Drypool ward.
ArthurLager Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

that’s because, like it or not, they are registered legal party, and you don’t have to vote for ‘em. still if s/he gets in, they’ll be able to change sides to get themselves on look north, just before election time, and then go and work 300 miles away while still drawing £1,000 a month despite hardly turning up to meetings.
Roberto Submitted 5 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

2 days after the NF pamphlet dropped through the letterbox, even more junk mail arrived from some organisation against the NF/BNP and other parties of a similar nature. This second paper was just as ridiculous as the first.

Does anyone know of a party that will BAN all this wasteful Junk mail?
Roberto Submitted 5 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Anyone considering voting for the BNP should study the attached picture of their "Leader?"

Is this chappie the model of Genetic Superiority? I think not. Mengele would have had him dumped in the trash can!

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