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1. Chromosome23 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   Quote mysti "prevent shops displaying Merry Christmas signs in case it offends one’s sensibilities and so on….."

   Does this actually happen? If it does, then I suspect it’s got more to do with predominantly British authorities, desperately trying to display their politically correct credentials. I used to work with Muslims from Bosnia, Pakistan, Iraq and Morocco. Every single one of them loved Christmas, and would have been amazed to think that they should be offended by it.

2. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   I think it’s not even the British authorities, it is certain sections of the British media, that spread the misinformation that ‘you can’t have Christmas as it might upset non-Christians’ in order to further promote their agenda of casual racism and non-integration.

3. frosty Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   Went to Hull Fair 40yrs ago and had my fortune read and she said somthing about Black and Muslim so i left the building !!!MMMMMMMMM never been back.

4. mysti Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   Frosty is that comment meant to mean something?

5. Robbo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   I think he’s trying to be big and clever by making racist comments. Its just a shame that 40 years ago he didn’t leave the country.

   I think that its fine for someone to attend a church (or relegious equivilent) that suites your religeous beliefs. Dont think it should matter what country you are in.

   As for school uniform then its probably not the childs decision to be here or to choose what school s/he attends so I think its unfair that they should be forced to wear something that they will find offensive. Although I do think the parents (or grandparents) should of considered cultural differences before moving here.

   And why should someone be proud to be British if they have moved here? I’m not proud to be British and I was born here. In fact if i’m on holiday and other Brits are then then often i’m embarrassed.

   Or I think about our criminal justice system or about crime rates and violence on the streets, or about the people milking the benefits system or I think of people like Frosty or many other things… and no i’m not proud to be British. This is not a land of hope and glory anymore.

6. mysti Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   So it’s alright for a child to cost the country possibly thousands taking an english school to court to be permitted to wear an item of non-uniform clothing (such as a hajib) or jewellery? Maybe there’d be uproar if a British kid took a school to court to be allowed to wear a wooly hat.

7. Robbo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   No its not alright for a child to take a school to court about it. The school should have enough sense to understand that different countries have different cultures and stop it before it gets to that stage. I cant see how persecuting a child or their religious beliefs is benefiting the school in any way. Its certainly not settnig a good example for the other kids. Of course some will complain that another child is exempt from wearing the uniform but that presents an opportunity to teach the students about that religion.

   I dont really see the relevance of the wooly hat comment?

8. mysti Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   We are not talking about different countries but this one. Living in Britain, attending school in Britain, using the NHS in Britain etc, Why should children from other ethnic backgrounds be given preferential treatment over our own kids? be allowed to sit out of RE in school, not attend assemblies in schools etc. I do not think that these families shouldn’t be here but I really believe that if they’ve made the choice to move here then they should embrace the cultures that this country have rather than forcing this country to accept theirs. If I moved to France I’d learn to speak French for example. Wooly hat = very british item of clothing to my mind.

9. Chromosome23 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

   I don’t think a wooly hat has quite the same cultural and religious significance to Britain as the hijab or a steel wristband has to Muslims and Sikhs.

10. Robbo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I agree that they should have to attend RE (it covered every major religion anyway when I was in school) and assemembly although I dont think they should have to say the Lord’s Prayer.

    I also agree that anyone moving here should be prepared to accept and adapt to our way of life. I just think that we are intelligent and reasonable enough to realise that not everyone should be treated the same and exceptions sometimes need to be made.

    I think that anyone living here should have to abide by our laws regardless of whether they conflict with religious views, but when it comes to something like a school uniform, I think its pathetic that we would make an issue out of it.

11. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I think it is worth noting that, at least when I was at school, any pupil was allowed to sit out of RE lessons or assemblies with a religious theme, regardless of their nationality, upon the request of their parents or guardians.

12. theagitator Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I spent the last 15 years working in Saudi Arabia,The UAE, Iran, Iraq & various other Moslem countries. Some were more liberal than others, but if you are a guest in these countries you obey the rules & everything goes OK. If you try to abuse the system you get stamped on hard. Just as it should be. If aliens come to the UK they should observe our rules, while following their own religion etc. On a slightly different tack, just after the Falklands war the islanders were known as Bennies because of the wooly hats they wore. This was after Benny in Crossroads, the programmes half-wit. The general in charge ordered they should not be called Bennies, as it was rather insulting. True to form the Squaddies called them Stills. As in you are a Benny still.

13. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    But do you think that our rules are accomodating enough to allow people to follow their religion? Take the school uniform example as a starting point.

    And speaking of using insulting terms, don’t you think your use of the words ‘aliens’ and ‘half-wit’ were a little insensitive? I appreciate that ‘aliens’ is (technically) correctly employed, but it also suggests a subtext of undesirabilty.

14. theagitator Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Yes there is freedom of religion in this country. I think the word ‘alien’ is not offensive in any way. For instance if the British or anyone else goes to the States, you queue up in the aliens line for immigration. No problem. The term ‘half-wit’ may be a trifle insensitive, but I honestly think it described Benny perfectly. However, if you insist I will withdraw it.

15. Colombo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Which words do you suggest, Will?

16. Robbo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    But Agi, there’s a big difference between obeying rules and obeying the actual law. Like I said, I think everyone should have to abide by the laws of the country they are in, but I dont think they should be forced to adhere to dress codes etc… providing they are not breaking any law by doing so.

17. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Just to clarify, my comment was not written in my capacity as a moderator; I’m partaking in the debate.

    Theoretically, there is freedom of religion, but there have been cases when a pupil’s choice of clothing or jewellery, based on religious grounds, has clashed with the school’s uniform policy, so there are some sticking points.

    You could have used simply ‘people’ or ‘foreign people’ instead of ‘aliens’.

    As for ‘half-wit’, in this context, you could have said ’...after Benny in Crossroads, who was unintelligent..’

    I don’t really know. One has to find a balance between censoring offensive terminology, and supressing free expression.

18. theagitator Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    OK, substitute ‘laws’ for ‘rules’ if it makes you happier. As for the dress code,as someone said earlier, this is a minor point stirred up by certain newspapers, only done to inflame the masses.

19. Pete1 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I would say yes follow every thing we do in the UK, but I am sick of druggies, yobs, hoodies and the rest. I wonder if those 6 million Brits who live abroad follow all the customs of the country they have elected to stay in and use their facilities.

    if you want to live in France, they let you have freedom of religous expression.

20. Pete1 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I should also have said, why force a visitor to follow our religion, I do not so why should they

21. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    But that’s the problem; it should be a minor point and there should be flexibility of the dresscodes to accomodate religious requirements, but often there isn’t. The disruption caused to the pupils and the rest of the school can’t help anyone. Singling someone out as a rulebreaker, and having to go through the rigmarole of investigating, going to the papers, perhaps even going to court, only worsens relations between different religious groups. The pupils are presented as having kicked up a fuss to bend the rules and get their own way, and this only gives ammunition to the ‘it’s one rule for us and another for them’ brigade, when in reality all they have done is fought for the same rights of religious expression that everybody is supposed to have.What should be simple case of making allowances for ALL people to be a little different, is twisted into an example of how ‘our’ culture is being eroded by ‘them’.

    Wasn’t there a case in France recently where Muslim girls were suspended for refusing to remove their headscarves?

22. theagitator Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Sorry Pete1, I don’t follow you train of thought. I dont think anyone mensioned forcing non-christians to follow the established faith in this country. As for the 6 million Brits who live & work abroad, I can only speak for myself. The other 5,999,999 must speak for themselves.

23. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Interesting that you should say ‘our’ religion and then say that you don’t follow it.

    In my opinion, this is one of the key points of the debate: national identity and laws have become entwined with the predominant religions of those countries. Britain may preach religious freedom in the law of the land, but as a Christian country, the whole system is biased against non-Christians in the details. School dresscodes are drawn up that comply with Christian values, but do not take into account other religions. Similarly, school lunch menus may not accomodate religious requirements. Of course, many schools are very clued up but some are not.

    I’m sure there are many other examples in everyday life where it is difficult to practise a religion other than Christianity.

    I think, to paraphrase countless commentators before me: people coming here should be prepared to live by British laws and accept British customs and traditions, but I also think the British should be willing to accept, respect and accomodate the cultural differences of our visitors or immigrants from other countries.

24. MarkLindsay Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    My mom works at Sainsburys (Jacksons) and they are not allowed to put up Christmas decorations in case it offends immigrants.They also do this in lloyds tsb. It does happen!

25. Pete1 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Your mail. I say "our" because that is what each person has described the christian religion. Sorry Mark, I do not believe you I know Sainsburys and they are not that stupid.. I would be happier if it was explained that residents from the EU can come here as we go to their country. They have to put in the waiting time for benefits as we have to in their country. We treat visitors the same as we treat our own residents and that is the law. As for theagitator, I have seen the British enclaves of, British shops, British churches in numerous countries established by Brits who feel visitors to the UK should do as we do, but they want to do as they like. In a nut shell many Brits are frightened of anything foreign except a holiday.

26. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I am no longer proud to be British. British people have de-evolved into trashy and rude people like Americans. Our world image of having good mannors is dead in the water.

    Thats why so many people are leaving to go to Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They are deserting the sinking ship.

    My brother has just got back from Oz, he felt safe wandering about at night on his own.

    Compare that with Hull.

    I am still amazed people want to come to Britain. I think it is only to do with the money. It sure isn’t for the culture anymore.

27. MarkLindsay Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Pete why would I say it if it wasnt true! I dont lie ! Sainsburys do it wether you believe it or not Go in sainsburys in Paragon sqwuare and ask for Sue,shes my mom she will tell you. Obviously Pete is another do-gooder who doesnt live in the real world,get out there its a big place.

28. Roberto Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Quote:My mom works at Sainsburys (Jacksons) and they are not allowed to put up Christmas decorations in case it offends immigrants.They also do this in lloyds tsb. It does happen!

    It sure does happen in many places & it is this type of behaviour that fuels the fires of racism.

29. Roberto Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I believe that the whole subject of immigration is too complex for the average joe to comprehend and quite easily gets mixed up in a giant cocktail shaker.

    Most people look at the immigrants as thieves coming to steal their hard earned cash which stokes up our economy. Look a little deeper and place yourselves in their shoes if that is possible. I very much doubt that anyone born in the UK could even comprehend the feelings of proper starvation and hardships that many of the immigrants have had. I can say with confidence that ALL users of this website would do the same in their shoes, Yes ALL users, even Fatpuss, Theagitator & Lazarus would try and get to a place where they have a better chance of living.

    You simply cannot blame the genuine refugee’s fleeing wartorn countries and starvation. Fellow human beings who need an outstretched hand to help them up. BUT there are also many many immigrants both legal and illegal who do not deserve this helping hand. It is fairly easy to define between the two, so why doesn’t our government pick up on this?

    Religion should be cast aside and totally ignored in the cases of immigration. If I was starving to death I am quite sure that I would renounce any religion in the name of self preservation. In my eyes, anyone who would not do this has got to be very radical about their distorted visions of nature and religion.

    Then we have the offer of everything provided to live a life of relative luxury completely FREE OF CHARGE and at the taxpayers expense. This is our governments downfall. Are we not supposed to be welcoming skills and trades here? If people know they can come here and milk the system, they will keep coming. The rest of europe does not work like this in fact immigrants have so long to start working or they get the boot. One of my friends is a Rumanian immigrant who lives in Bologna. A couple of years ago he fell from a trailer while loading boxes on by hand. He landed on his head and fractured his skull. 6 weeks later when I saw him again I asked him why he was back at work so soon and he told me that he had to be there and get his papers stamped or the Italian government would throw him out. I was pretty distressed for his sake and I offered to let him come and stay with us for a couple of months until he recovered but he politely declined the offer as he was worried that the Italian authorities would refuse to let him back in. I always remember the first two words he spoke in english "Manchester United" so the next time I went down there I took some of my better half’s Man U shirts which I blagged from her wardrobe. To him this was as good as being given a UK passport.

    YOU CAN’T TAR THEM ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH.

30. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    "Some were more liberal than others, but if you are a guest in these countries you obey the rules & everything goes OK. If you try to abuse the system you get stamped on hard."

    I see, so you can’t drink in Arab countries, or strip off and swim in the pool? The only way Saudi Arabia got around alcohol prohibition and indecency laws was to bring American military and industrial compounds into American jurisdiction. That seemed to work for the Arabs and Yanks, so why don’t we turn over some of our country to all the immigrants so they can establish their own laws and principles?

31. mysti Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Please don’t misundertsand me, I am not saying immigrants shouldn’t come to this country, although if they were suffering as in "the genuine refugee’s fleeing wartorn countries and starvation" why do they pass through so many other countries to come here? Is it because we are too easy or accomodating for them? Christmas is a big part of British tradition and not being able to put up decorations is an infringement of our rights at the risk of offending others. If I was passing a shop and didn’t like the window display I would look away not take it to the newspapers. If for example a school’s uniform dress policy states no jewellry then that should go for all the kids regardless of background or religion. Why is it we have to alter our traditions and values for people who want a better life here?

32. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I think it’s important to note that Sainsbury’s and Lloyds TSB will be acting on their own decisions. It’s not the law preventing them displaying Xmas decorations, it’s their own fear of being branded predjudiced. I bet they have never had any significant complaints from customers in previous years, and are acting pre-emptively.

    Creating posts like this and citing examples only spreads the propaganda. If you want to put decorations up, or fly the Union Jack, or do any of the things that the Daily Mirror tries to tell you Johnny Foreigner wants to stop you doing, then do it! See how many genuine complaints you get. And if anyone does complain, it doesn’t mean you have to stop.

    Regarding the school uniform: I don’t think it really counts as a deeply entrenched part of British history, and so it’s not an attack on Britishness to allow someone to wear their traditional religious adornments.

    Does anybody have any direct experience of a time when they were prevented from doing something perfectly normal because it may have been considered racist, or is it all hearsay and propaganda?

33. karl Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The main reason I see for people not being proud to be British is the simple fact that British traditions whether events or personnel have been squashed out of existence over the past decades only to suit those that choose to live here instead of where they are born. Britain has become so pc that I cannot legally speak my own personnel thoughts without retribution. Yet a person from a foreign country can come to Britain and force his demands on us. This has happened in the recent school debacle, in my view school is for learning, not just the curriculum but the social skills required to get on in life. Children don’t understand the fuss of religion and clearly don’t understand why some other child is treated in preference to them. I have seen this with my own daughter who feels sorry for her class mate because her religion stops her receiving gifts from others at xmas. I believe this then leads to hatred of others different to themselves. Also add to this their parents airing their views in the child’s presence and a racist is born, simply out of not understanding, but a non-understanding forced on them by society not their own ignorance. All in all in my view that it is the small pc brigade and media that have caused the current situation in Britain not the majority of its inhabitants who have to put up with what is dished out to them.

34. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    But, like Robbo says above, doesn’t that give an excellent opportunity to teach the kids about the other religions and cultures, and to teach them to accept differences in other people. Isn’t that part of the social skills required to get on in life?

35. theagitator Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Is using the words ‘Johnny Foreigner’ any more or less insensitive than using ‘Alien’? If we are required to be PC in our statements, let us at least be consistant.

36. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    My usage of that term was meant to be ironic. I was trying to illustrate the ways in which people’s perceptions are manipulated by the media. It is the kind of evocative un-PC language used by the right-wing press to stir up low-level racial mistrust and suapicion, if not outright hatred.

    It is not a phrase I would normally use. I apologise if I caused any offence.

37. YourMailWill Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    suapicion = suspicion

38. Roberto Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I don’t see anything offensive about the term "Johnny Foreigner". This does go to show just how paranoid and scared the Uber-Liberals and PC brigade have made us.

    We use terms and cliche’s at home that would get us all locked up if we put it down in writing for all to see. This comes from a family that actually goes out of the way to help people in need whatever their creed or colour.

    All I can say is the PC brigade can shove their idea’s where they originated from, and don’t forget to wash the handies afterwards!! As I may have stated previously, They are the very people responsible for the increase in ultra right wing tendencies. If the National Front, BNP etc etc have had an increase in memberships, it is because of the PC loonies and their silly ideas.

    Personally speaking I don’t find anything offensive as I was born and raised to have broad shoulders. If anyone does find things they see in the press or on TV they should either stop reading or turn the channel over without making such a meal out of it.

    How many of us remember having to make a choice as a small child? Eenie Meenie Miny Mo, Catch the PC brigade by the toe.

    Lets all grow up a bit and stop crying over trivial rubbish.

39. Colombo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Somewhere, in my loft, there is one of the first books from which I learned to read.

    In modern parlance it begins:

    Ten vertically challenged ethnic minority beings of the male gender were seated on a wall.

40. Roberto Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Does the british government look at the mistakes in history & think that by doing the exact opposite that things will be done right?

    For example: The third reich put the Germanic people first and persecuted other races who they considered to be inferior. Currently in the UK it is the British people who are considered inferior and persecuted. I found a perfect example of this only a few weeks ago and the confirmation came straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I came back into the country via dunkirk-dover and got pulled into the customs bay as is quite common for a truck with a GB plate. While two of the customs chaps were checking my load and paperwork, I was chatting to another customs man and questioned why it was that most of the trucks pulled in for rigorous checks are British. His reply astonished me and he informed me that it wa too difficult trying to get money from foreign businesses. Apparently if a vehicle gets pulled onto the bays and the customs wish to empty the full contents they might put 12 operatives on the job and charge £15 per hour for each man. The trailer is not allowed to go until the money has been paid. This is downright theft by the government.

41. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Some areas of Britain are loosing their British identity.

    I go to places like Dewsbury and Bolton. They used to be full of glorious old industrial buildings.

    Now the places are jammed full of mosques and people dressed up like ninjas.

42. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Places of master and servant, high death rates, below subsistence wages, inhumane living conditions, child brothels, full churches on Sunday. Is this the British identity you are so fond of returning to?

43. Colombo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Only provided I’m the Master.

44. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Twirling your black moustache with one hand, and fingering your fob chain with the other, whilst gazing upon the women and children toiling relentlessly at your spinning frames.

45. Colombo Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Being an engineer, I’d make sure they had the most productive spinning frames.

46. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    It is part of our heritage and it is being replaced by mosques the size of football stadiums like the one in Bolton.

47. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    And we’re replacing religion with cathedral sized football stadiums. I don’t see the point, other than you don’t like Islam in Britain.

    Industrialisation and the slavery it compelled the global native succumb to is a part of Britishness I think we should be happy to consign to the history books, as a lasting reminder of man’s inhumanity over man, woman and child.

48. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Same goes for religion. That should be consigned to history books, as a lasting reminder of man’s inhumanity over man, woman and child.

    We already have too many churches falling apart. Why we need a bunch of mosques as well is beyond me.

49. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I don’t like islam in Britain, because their religion is barking mad to a man of science like myself. How someone can blow themselves up in the name of some mythical rubbish is beyond me.

    Same goes for christianity.

50. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    This is what you have to put up with in Britain today…

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491977/Opponent-mega-mosque-receives-chilling-death-threat-YouTube.html

51. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    It is indeed a sad state of affairs what we have to put up with in the World today.

    • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2524741/Man-arrested-over-racist-threat-to-kill-Barack-Obama.html

    • http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/327834.stm

    • http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/feb/04/motorsports.formulaone

    Perhaps you should read Alan Craig’s blog, it is, shall we say, very enlightening. Although don’t try and vote whether you agree with the building of the mosque though, it doesn’t work.

    • http://www.meetalancraig.com/

52. Roberto Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The thing that infuriated me the most in the last 42 years was when the cretins in power decided to make this country the laughing stock of the world. Parading around London with t shirts apologising for the nations part in slavery. How dignified is that?

    Being Hull born and bred I am as proud as the next man to say that William Wilberforce had such strong connections with my city, but to play stupid charades like that one is beyond moronic.

    I demand that the pope visits my house, drops to his knees and kisses my feet begging my forgiveness for the inquisition.

    This is Uber-Liberalism, a form of brain malfunction.

53. AR-Tony Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I will present here two sanitised accounts, but I promise they will remain totally truthful and proper. In both I do not come through as well as I would have liked, but I have broad shoulders. I have given both accounts on BBC Radio without any editing whatsoever and they were well received, but I did get laughed at. My next contribution will be the two accounts. So if you fail to read them you can draw your own conclusions. There will be two people in the accounts to whom I shall refer to as FTs for fellow travelers.

54. AR-Tony Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I and my dear wife were beside the Big Screen. I elected to stay watching some snooker for a moment, while my wife entered her Bank nearby. A very smart young lady Ft in her discreet form of dress was sat nearby and she gave me a pleasant smile, which I promptly responded to with a friendly nod and smile. She and I began to talk. She struggled determinedly with our complex language. She and her husband were recent arrivals. She explained that she had freshly qualified as a Doctor of Medicine and he as an Engineer. I asked her if she liked my city and she thought for a moment. Before she could reply a drunken woman of about thirty years of age and one of my own people came staggering by. The FT and I both turned and gazed silently after the drunk as she passed. Then the drunk fell sprawling over the pavement. The drunk howled a great unseemly oath and struggled to roll over to sit on her backside. I walked over and gently enquired `Are you alright, young lady?’ The drunken woman kicked out at me and she screamed, `No. I’m not alright you stupid…’ and so she carried on ranting, her filth spewing forth a never ending torrent of abuse as she clambered up a nearby seat and tottered off. She could still be heard way beyond the Woolworth store. I turned to look upon the young lady FT. She sat serene and calm. It was the total absence of surprise or shock in her countenance that wounded me and I looked away ashamed.

55. AR-Tony Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Another occasion and again by the Big Screen, I sat with my wife while I rested for a moment, then we proceeded along King Edward Street and on to Prospect Centre. We were going to buy a football from the sports shop. Suddenly my wife exclaimed`I have left my handbag on the seat back there, pointing towards the Big Screen. Well neither of us move very quickly these days and it took some time to return.

    In the distance I could see a young FT sat on the same seat that we had occupied earlier. When I asked the young FT about the bag, he immediately told us he and an English man had discovered the bag and the English man had taken it to the security guard in the Next store. My wife went through various formalities and retrieved her. She gave the guard the price of a pint and came outside to rejoin me.

    The FT had told me he had elected to sit and await our return and to inform us of the bag’s whereabouts. He told me he was living rough and was hungry. Typically for me, I thought here a chance to meet a fellow traveler from distant parts and he would present me with one more learning curve. I told him he must come to our home and be fed and watered, have a wash, I would rig him out in clean clothing and he could enjoy a good nights sleep. My wife was perplexed, she said she had an awful sense of foreboding and we should give him some money. I dismissed all thoughts of caution and we took him home.

    He refused to wash, but accepted our food. He volunteered to wash the pots and pans and went into the kitchen. He insisted we left him to it, so we did. He rejoined us in the living room and lowered himself heavily to the floor and rolled over on his back. He waffled on in reasonable English. He stated that he would be most happy to stay and he would pay for his keep by doing chores around the house. We would need to do nothing.

    I asked him why, if he was a willing worker, he was destitute and could he not earn a living for himself and get a place of his own. He got up saying he needed a drink and went back to the kitchen for a few moments then returned to say he had no intention of working. He said he had lived with other Fellow Travelers in Hull, but quickly tired of the work. He did not like it so took to living on the streets.

    He then remarked how beautiful our home was, but added that it was very hot. Considering the type of terrain he had come from I almost laughed, but all the alarm bells were suddenly ringing. He said again he was thirsty and tottered off back into the kitchen. I followed him. He was not drinking water. He had polished off two-thirds of a litre of Vodka. The Vodka was seventy percent proof and my sons had sipped at it over a period of a year. The fumes would have floored me. He said it was very nice Ouzo. I followed him into the living room and watched as he went to tumble onto a couch. We dragged him up the stairs and propelled him onto the bed in the single room. I sat watching him all night long lest he should choke in his sleep. He slept like a babe.

    The following morning I again tried to persuade him to wash, but to no avail. I offered him clean clothes, but he chose some p j bottoms. I then followed him down stairs to find him sat cross legged in the middle of the living room floor. He looked up at me and extending his arms out palms upwards begged me to give him money for chocolate. I hit the phone. For two hours I called embassies, agencies and the Salvation Army. All to no avail. One organisation, a Fellow Travelers self help group in Queen’s House reacted with disbelief and astonishment. The lady FT on the other end of the phone said I had been very compassionate, but fool hardy. She however, like al the rest could do nowt.

    Meanwhile the FT is still sat there, begging for money for chocolate. Chocolate? I kept asking him why he needed money for chocolate? `You give me Ten Pounds for chocolate!’ `No!’ I repeated. `Why? I need chocolate. Chocolate!’ I gave him the £10 and opened the door to the street outside and gave him a meaningful look. I still felt some pity for him, for it had started to rain. He rose from the floor and eyed the falling rain and said, ` Is £10 enough for good chocolate?’ I pulled him to my breast laughing, `No you will probably need at least £15 for a JACKET.’ We shook hands. He said he was glad his father would not know of the Ouzo. Father would scold him most terribly, he said and turning to pass through the door he hunched his shoulders and left. My parting remark to him was received with some bemusement. I said young man, your people will rise again soon enough, for they were once one of the greatest nation and had played a great part in the civilisation of our world. As he sauntered off I wondered, did he like chocolate?

56. Chromosome23 Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Quote AR "As he sauntered off I wondered, did he like chocolate?"

    Err…was he an Aztec perchance? Queen Victoria Square is full of them at times.

57. karl Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    AR, are we supposed to feel sorry for these people you write about, Britain on the whole has been change to suit anybody who dosn’t like our culture. Our culture based on thousands of years of history will soon be wiped out by the pc brigade in case it offends someone who should not be in this country in the first place. I for one believe that British laws and British people should be in the front of any foreign person who wishes to be part of this country, if they want their own laws and religion then they should stay in their own country with them.

58. AR-Tony Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Karl you are supposed to nothing. It must remain your right to feel as you please. The above accounts are more about me than them. My natural reaction on seeing the first woman was one of pleasure as a male looking upon a woman who had real class, calm and great composure. After the episode with the other poor unfortunate member of my own race had transpired the calm, untroubled and totally unsurprised non reaction of the first Lady had provoked a very different reaction in me. One of total shame.

    The other account was also about me and my less than well reasoned and incautious reaction to a fellow who I both wished to reciprocate his good will to me and mine and serve my own innate curiosity in people of a different culture and language. I am fascinated by differing languages.

    I think both results in both accounts were far more to do with my sense of curiosity than any altruistic or benevolent instinct on my part, so, I suppose , served me right. As to the learning curve, the last episode was far to steep and will never be repeated. That last conclusion does not bode well for me and maybe my country.

    So after further reflection, no, I do not feel sorry for any of them. I have time for those who bring skills and advantage to my country and very little for those who abjure and run away from their own conflicts, leaving them unresolved and foisting their unsolved problems upon my dear old England. I am not sure I feel too good about that final analysis, but I will live with it. God! I do waffle. Ha!

59. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Lazarus, what has spanish racists got to do with Louis Hamilton?

    That is in Spain.

    In Britain Louis is loved.

60. Lazarus Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    That’s probably the worst comment you could have possibly made Sky: some are equal than others. I suppose that’s the difference between an English problem and a World problem.

61. black Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Tony, you are such a skilled story teller.. I’ve always thought that.. I could listen to you for hours, and have done!! I can’t believe your loving wife allowed you to bring someone in off the street.. is there no end to her patience with your endeavours?

62. AR-Tony Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I learn slowly most of the time, intuitively some of the time and need a kick up the backside much of the time. My wife has more patience than a thousand women and a million men.

63. black Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    On the subject of school uniforms and teaching RE.

    School uniforms exist and are worn for a number of reasons, to give a sense of pride in their school, to create a uniformed identity, to make all children equal and to allow children to understand that going to school requires a different set of clothes, just as later in life going to work will also require a specific dress code. I do believe that whatever religion you have you should adhere to the school dress code. As there are specific modes of dress in different working envirnoments, if nothing else but for Health and Saftey. However, most schools will allow girls of some religious backgrounds to wear their religious dress. Children see others who don’t wear a uniform as being allowed to wear what they like and see them as getting away with something they couldn’t.

    Tinsel not being hung at Sainsburys is more likely for fear it falls on someone, and they sue Sainsburys not out of any political correctness.

    RE should be taught to all children who are in this country as the curriculum covers all religions not just Christianity. Children get a wide grounding in many different traditions and values, it is part of their cultural/ethical and moral education.

64. SkyWalker Submitted 3 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The British are the least racist people in the world. Sure we have a history of Empire and racism, but we were once of the first to outlaw slavery, DECADES before America.

    We are a multicultural society that allows people in from far and wide. They come to be part of GREAT Britain and have a better life.

    All I am saying, is that some sections of the muslim community do not want to integrate.

    Recent polls show that a large percentage of them do not like the British way of life and our democratic values.

65. mysti Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The article on youtube that skywalker refers to above states "Plans for the 18-acre-complex, which is expected to include a school for 500 boys, have yet to be submitted to Newham council for approval". This is the site of a ‘mega mosque’ and in this day and age why should it be a boys school? Cultural difference I suppose. Death threats to someone who objects to this mega mosque on the grounds that he gives is wrong this man is born and brought up in Britain and should have the freedom to object if he chooses to do so.

66. medsec Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    SkyWalker you are very rude about Christianity and demonstrate you know very little about it. You may choose to devote your life to science, but many scientists have closed minds and will not entertain anything which does not fit with their cherished suppositions. I don’t go round slagging off science/scientists, so at least have a little respect for those who don’t believe everything you do.

67. mimi Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Skywalker- My sister lives in Dewsbury and married to a muslim.

    It may have been a couple of months since i last went there but old buildings are still there maybe not all as some of these have also been demolished to make way for new housing,and shops.

    My sister does not dress like a ninja as you put it but most muslim women do dress in the clothes of there culture.

    Muslims do take there religion seriously some to the extreme i know know but that is a hand full of idiots that i have been brainwashed in something else.

    Also muslim children and families seem to have more family values and respect each other more than most british kids of today do.

    Also as for work if some of the bone idle brits got of the social and went out to work they would not be the jobs here for others such as polish, Turks ect.

68. Roberto Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    In this day and age where schools talk about so many different religions that have different views etc, how can I possibly let my son sit in a class doing RE knowing full well that his own father is the being that the teacher talks of. My son will obviously see the christian story as a hoax and question the teacher if it is true as he is the son of god. The one and only true god!

    Each to their own but I do believe that ramming beliefs down other peoples throats is downright rude if not immoral.

69. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I would prefer it if RE was dropped Robbo, and instead debate moral and ethical philosophy, which could impinge on religious teachings. A school does not have the legitimacy to force any religion upon a child.

70. black Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Lazarus, England is a Christian country, Religious Education is just as important as History. RE isn’t forcing a particular religion upon anyone, that’s just a myth you read in the paper, in the curriculum ALL religions are taught.. obviously being a Christian country more time is dedicated to that, however if you were in an Islamic country you would expect Islam to get a lions share of the curriculum.. Modern RE lessons also encompass philosophical debate about the nature of God, ethics and morality. As well as discussing many other religions in order to promote a global understanding of the subject. Considering more than 2.1 billion people class themselves as Christian and 16.5% of the worlds population don’t have any religion. I’d say it was a necessity in all schools to educate its pupils in a subject which to 84% of the worlds population is vital.

71. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    That’s why I said any religion. History isn’t that important, and I most certainly wouldn’t force it down a child’s throat; personally I couldn’t stand the history being taught in Secondary School, as much as I couldn’t stand the State’s word of God. Apparenlty I was labelled CofE at birth, so does that legitimise schools to teach children protestantism?

72. Colombo Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Lazarus: History is important. It’s just that we don’t seem to be able to learn the lessons of it.

73. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    That depends on which perspective you accept Colombo, history’s, or the historian’s. As Carr said; History teaches no lessons

74. Colombo Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    That’s true, in a way. History doesn’t teach us – we have to learn from it.

75. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    And from that premiss we have to consider who is teaching history. You can judge a person’s politics from the history they read, as much as you can from the papers we read.

    A question I raised some time ago is: Can you write a history of Cola drinks without Coke Cola?

76. Nutmeg Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    On a slightly different tack: the Olympic charter states "Any form of discrimination with regard to a country or a person on grounds of race, religion, politics, sex or otherwise is incompatible with belonging to the Olympic Movement." Yet many Muslim countries which take part in the Olympics completely ignore the bit about sex discrimination, and women from those countries are not allowed to take part in sport. The rest of the world lets them do it because it’s in the name of religion. And I very much doubt whether London will raise the issue.

77. black Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Lazarus.. I wonder how far you’ve gotten in your life, without History or Religion/?? You are a product of both.. I’m frankly astounded by your conclusions of not teaching history..

    whilst I understand that the adage of those victorious always write the history books.. I think that’s a slightly cynical standpoint for NOT teaching it in schools.. It’s a bit like saying.. you shouldn’t teach PE because the majority of people are obese.

    Children deserve to know where they have come from, and what came before, children are also taught history by their parents and the television, what an ignorant comment. Modern history classes teach children to question the sources of their information, teach them to compare books and data, looking to check their "facts" against other peoples "facts" to find the truth..

    The FACT is.. we are living in a democracy because of recent history.. and all children deserve to know what their great grandparents gave up for them!! we are able to drink coke cola BECAUSE of my grandparents.. and there is no doubting that..

78. Colombo Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Does Cuba still serve that version of Cola created for them by Russia, in Kruschev’s days.

79. mimi Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Maybe you should see this to get a true picture of Muslim women.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKo0c_7_ZbY

80. Nutmeg Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Mimi, that’s a partial picture. The fact is that there are Muslim countries where women can’t take part in sport.

81. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    It should be interesting when a devoutly Islamic country hosts the games; such as Saudi Arabia. There is blanket censorship on any female flesh in the media. But Al Qaeda websites, go right in.

82. AR-Tony Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    With reference to Olympian womanhood.

    Was it not once the accepted practise, among our young `Gals’ to walk in short and measured steps to avoid, imagined or otherwise, any possible damage to their hymen, which would bring at best doubt of their purity and at worst, much criticism for their lack of moral decency?

    Given that our highly moral muslim cousins put great store in the chastity, and completeness of their maidens, when they enter the marriage bed, would it not be reasonable to surmise that their reluctance to allow their children to throw themselves into the careless and care free abandon of gymnastic and field sports is informed by the same reasoning.

83. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I think you might be treading a very fine line with this one Tony.

84. AR-Tony Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    In the absence of explanation we can only surmise their true thoughts, worries and troubles.

    Fencing, cycling, Judo and similar contact sports cover much of our human form.

    So many opportunities declined can only suggest other reasons.

    .

85. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I wouldn’t stand in your way, but we could do with the missing other on this.

86. AR-Tony Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The other to which I refer might include my earlier guess (for that is what it is) beyond this I have nothing to offer, but only a willingness to hear and learn. I am sorry if I gave a different impression above, but beyond my earlier suggestion lies only my own bafflement.

87. Lazarus Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    That’s a great video mimi. The irony of dissent.

88. mysti Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Despite everything said on this post I still believe that if I lived elsewhere (an islamic country for example) I would have to abide by their rules, keep my head covered, study their religous text in schools etc so why is Britain so willing to accept other perspectives and is this not toatally diluting GREAT Britain?

89. black Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    We are a multicultural society, that’s why, also anyone who comes here has to abide by our rules, no killing people, no abusing people, no stealing, and to be taught ALL religions in schools! .. wow! what a hardship!..

    Mysti.. can you tell me what EXACTLY is british about britian? which part of it? cos i’m white, male, english,... what part of my traditional values are british? is it that I like HP sauce on my chips? you can buy that in norway! is it that i eat fish and chip, or even that i call chips, chips.. they do that in ireland too… is it that we have a king and queen… they do in other european countries, is it that we all watch coronation street!... that program is broadcast all over the world.. which laws are distinctly british laws? the one about pregnant women being able to pee in a policemans helmet? when was that last done, or the law about a bail of hay being carried in the back of a taxi? when was that last upheld.. which british laws, traditions are you so keen to uphold?

90. black Submitted 2 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    seems to me, you are not keen to uphold any.. seems to me you are keen to IMPORT these stricter laws about cutting peoples hands off if they steal anything, about only teaching one religion, even thou there are many different religions in this country.. ? seems to me, you are wanting a less British Britain

    for the last time, we are a Christian country, and Christianity is taught in ALL schools as part of the law, other religions are taught too, because we are part of a multicultural society, however the majority of RE lessons are to the teaching/understanding and moral/ethical debate of Christian religion.

91. black Submitted 2 months ago <