Your Say

Expand the city boundaries

by radiator4612 9 months ago
Last updated 4 months ago.

Guildhall

Hull ranks as one of the most underbounded cities in the country.

The charade we currently have means that the city is constantly at the mercy of spurious headlines regarding under-performing schools, poor crime statistics etc. etc. etc. and by extension causes problems with the portrayal and national media profile of the whole region.

My contention is that the Hull ‘City Region’ should be recognised as such, in the same manner as Leeds and many other continuous built up urban areas in the UK.

For a start, a vast majority of the so called ‘West Hull Villages’ rely on the city of Hull for work, amenities and entertainment, yet pay their council tax to the East Riding Council. This means that somebody paying their taxes in Hessle is also paying for the upkeep and improvement of Bridlington and Driffield ie. parts of the region they very rarely travel to or make use of.

The first issue to tackle in changing perceptions of Hull nationally is to change the snobbish, backward attitudes to Hull that a minority of East Riding folk display, and to help them realise that a strong, successful and fair national portrayal of this grand old city, and the regions only major city, would benefit them in the long run.

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  1. Anng Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    You’re right, but the situation came about when Humberside was abolished and the "West Hull Villages" fought tooth and nail to stay out of the new unitary authority. I gather that Nottingham is in the same position – no leafy suburbs.

  2. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Exactly.

    A very vocal MINORITY of people in the West Hull villages (most people I believe don’t really care either way, or would support the idea of integration with the city boundaries if told of the benefits ) fought tooth and nail to stay out of the boundary because of the reasons I cited. Snobbish and backwards attitudes.

    Most of these places may well have been rural ‘villages’ a long time ago, but nobody can seriously claim that they are now. They are suburbs.

  3. Jdm0714 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I have been saying this for years, if the west hull villages counted in the hull boundaries which they should then hulls league tables for starters will go up. Also like someone has said already said there suburbs you can’t seriously count them as villages. Also i think it’s unfair the villages are paying council tax to east riding where the money will benefit places like Bridlington’s regeneration which hardly anybody will benefit from this area but hulls regeneration will be benefiting all the nearby the villages.

  4. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I am quite happy living in one of the West Hull villages. If I wished to live in Hull I would move there. I have no inclination to pay taxes to the city of Hull as it is one of the most mis- managed councils in the country.

  5. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I presume you are quite happy to use the amenities etc. that living within the built up area of Hull provide for you though Douglas.

    Double Standards.

  6. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I dont use Hull amenities, solely the east riding

  7. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Well you’re in the minority in the west hull suburbs.

  8. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Yes

  9. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The case for the prosecution rests then.

    Let’s expand the city boundaries and stop this nonsense once and for all. The size of the city of Hull should be reflected by it’s administrative boundaries, helping to improve the whole region in the national perception, and in turn increase investment in both the city and it’s immediate environs.

  10. Oscalet Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    OK, how are you going to do that? It’s a good idea but somehow I think some sections of the population may be a bit resistant…

  11. barrow Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Dont forget that the people of Hull had to take their dead to be burried in Hessle up to AD 1287 as Hull was once a part of that area.many villages such as Hessle,Cottingham,Anlaby,Kirk Ella,Hedon are all older than Hull and existed before Hull.We are not new suburbs,but ancient communities.Before you say we are all posh,I live in a council house.So why are so Hull folks trying to get their kids into East Riding schools

  12. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Like I said, these places were seperate villages once upon a time, but not now. When so many other cities in the country have been granted the privelige of expanded boundaries, Hull should be allowed to move with the times and have it’s full built up area be represented on political level.

    As for your point about Hull residents trying to get their kids into east riding schools. That is a part of the vicious circle. It happens in every city in the country, as it has always been the British way, for a variety of reasons, that the afflunet move to the outskirts of their home city. It just so happens that in Hull, these outskirts are not classed as ‘Hull’ and therefore do not raise the overall picture of education in the city. Education league tables do not reflect the real standard of the full city’s education attainment.

    As for calling you ‘posh’…Class shouldn’t be an issue in this argument, as the expansion of the boundaries would benefit the whole region. Like I said, there are bound to be a minority of NIMBY, backwards east riding folk who do not understand this. They don’t even need to be ‘posh’ to be ‘snobbish’.

  13. karl Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    When it comes down to it, it is just snobbery of the highest kind not wanting to be affiliated with a city. to say you don’t use ammenities is wrong, most of the services ie, electric, water and sewage is run from the city. The city council is poor, but that reflects on people not caring and voting any pillock in. This city was a great place until thatcher destroyed it. The people who work in city but live in the outscirts are always complaining how poor the city is, what right have you to complain, none. then there are those who say they don’t like the shops and would sooner travel to other cities to do their shopping, if money was spent in the cities shops more better shops would come. So if you don’t like this city stay away work and live elsewhere we will be better of without you.

  14. sarah65 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Perhaps if the people of Hull could shake off their victim mentality the city might stand a chance of improving . Stop looking for a scape goat or a fairy godmother to improve Hull’s standing. The will to improve has to come from the people who live there. The independent spirit I remember from my childhood in Hull has been replaced by a collective apathy and dependency culture.

  15. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    It’s not ‘looking for a fairy godmother’ to request that the city be put on a fair and even footing with other similar sized cities in the country. And it is most definitely not apathetic to actively request something be done about it (belatedly).

    It just needs the political will in the Guildhall to go through with it. I’ve absolutely no doubt that Hull’s argument is a strong one.

    And that’s from somebody who grew up in Hessle.

  16. sarah65 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    There is no political will in the Guildhall to do anything. The elected members are too busy with their infighting and self preservation to look byond the boundaries of their own wards, never mind lookng at the bigger picture.

    Changing the statistics so Hull climbs futher up the table won’t do anything to make a failing school into a good one. Everyone knows where the good schools are and which ones they would move to the other end of the country to avoid.

    Why should the council in Hull get praised for raising Hull up the league tables if all they have done is move the boundaries and fiddle the statistics? What is needed is real, meaningful, sustained improvement. East Riding Council continues to improve with out the need to massage the figures.

  17. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    But the point is, the council is effectively in charge of an ‘inner city’ area, with all the social problems and historic legacy that this brings with it in a post-industrial world. Certain other northern cities have been transformed in the last 20 years, partly because they have seen the need to work together on a regional government level, and plan according to their needs as a whole.

    Changing the boundaries would allow the city to be seen as a more attractive proposition for private investment, which in turn would breed more and more economic prosperity thorughout the whole wider area. Nothing breeds success like success.

    Hull remains hamstrung due to ‘infighting’ on a wider level between it’s inner core and stubborn outer districts.

  18. Oscalet Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    So, what constitutes a ‘good’ school? There’s more to education than league tables and GCSE results. Some of the schools in Hull are outstanding, but they can only work with what they’ve got. If you look at how much kids have learned and improved and not just at how many A-Cs a school has, you’ll find that Hull schools often do really well.

    People moving out of Hull so that they can send their kids to East Riding schools might think they’re getting a ‘better’ education, but in fact it’s just that the average pass rate is higher. More fool them. I live on Hessle Road and my kids have all gone to local schools and done fine.

    I do think that expanding the boundaries would improve the national standing of Hull, but really, does it matter? It’s how the people who live here feel about it that’s important.

  19. sarah65 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Changing the boundaries doesn’t get rid of the inner city problems. It just looses them in statistics. I fully agree the way forward is to make the area more attractive to inward investment, which takes me back to my previous comments on appathy and self help. The people in Hull need to start beliving in themselves again.

  20. sarah65 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Oscarlet, presumably your kids have done well because they have parent who took an interest and supported them in their education. Unfortunately that is something many chidren lack, just look at the number of shcool age children wandering the streets up to no good when they should be at home.

  21. Granny.A Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Or at school!

  22. Anng Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    It’s not in the hands of the city council. I do get fed up with people who blame the council for absolutely everything, whether it’s their fault or not. The power to alter boundaries is with the Boundary Commission. It made the decision to put Hull’s boundaries where they are, having given in to the vocal minority in the "villages". I can’t see any chance of them going back on that – much as the council would love them to do. Lobby the Electoral Commission if you feel strongly about it.

  23. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Erm..Shouldn’t the council lobby the boundary commission?

  24. davessay Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I live on the outskirts of Hull, and my children go to schools outside of the Hull boundary. I also work in Leeds whose city boundaries encompass an area that includes outlying villages. This stated, I can see both sides of the argument. I would have been quite happy for my kids to go to Kelvin Hall School but the choice was based on where they wanted to go. I don’t see the boundaries that others do. When I walk up Bricknell Avenue, there are no border patrols and no flashing lights. The only difference is the council tax, a sign indicating I am now in Cottingham and a different Dustman. We unwittingly share each other’s facilities, footpaths, parks and amenities and as far as I’m concerned socially we are already united. I do agree that the Hull council does need a shake up but how is that going to happen if the outlying villages do not have the right to vote in (dare I say) a conservative council. I notice many people write in to the Mail to criticise Hull and its policies but again dare I venture to say do you have the right to if you don’t live there. Going back to using Leeds as an example, speak to the people and they all still have their local identities. There are still inner city areas such as Chapeltown and Gipton, these are much far worse than the most awful parts of Hull which you can name. I bet Leeds wouldn’t be so far up the league table for anything if they had the strict boundaries Hull has. In the end yes, Hull statistics would improve if all the villages were encompassed into the equation but, in my opinion, it would be a better representation of the population as a whole and would give a better representation of Hull and surrounding villages to potential investment. Wouldn’t that benefit us all?

  25. Anng Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Radiator, there you go again. The boundaries issue is supposed to be non-political, to stop authorities arranging things to suit their own political advantage. The council has made it quite clear that the city would greatly benefit from enlarged boundaries, but they cannot set out on a political campaign for change.

  26. Roberto Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I am afraid that the city of Hull faces a steep uphill climb to become one of the nations great cities. This is mainly due to negative attitudes regarding the place, not only from the rest of the country in silly polls but from within the city itself. Hull is a great city, with a wealth of history and heritage behind it. Lets have a bit more of a positive attitude towards where WE ALL live and then maybe we can get somewhere. I lived in one of the more upmarket parts of willerby for a couple of years and I can tell you it doesn’t hold a candle to East Hull. The people are what make the areas.

  27. Dazer Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Years of mismanagement by Labour councils have made this city the mess it is, far too much influence and interference by the local business chamber, barring large compnies coming to the city, because it would show what poor wages and conditions local business paid, all these things are now showing up the corruption of past years of Labour misrule. Now wanting to take over outside areas that are well run by EYRC, is just pathetic and desperate measures, to save face.

  28. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    What has Hull got to offer the East Riding? Third world government, a football pitch & a fish tank.No thanks I’ll stay in the East Riding.

  29. BobM Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Some football pitch, some fish tank, not sure about the local government yet.

  30. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Hull City Council is improving all the time, as confirmed by the latest audit commission.

    I’m sure it would improve further with the input of the west Hull villages, who would benefit enormously from having their taxes pay for the area in which they actually live, as opposed to paying for towns and villages that are, in some instances, 30-40 miles away.

  31. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    radiator4612, The people in the West Hull villages do not wish to be part of Hull.This was made perfectly clear when Humberside was done away with. The villages around Hull have nothing to gain paying money to a sub-standard council of whatever colour. The East Riding council is not perfect, but it is streets ahead of Hull.At least we don’t have Honourary members of council, all our members were elected by the citizens not co-opted by their cronies.

  32. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    The agitator.

    This was only ‘made perfectly clear’ by a vocal MINORITY of snobs, who love to live under the illusion that they are members of the rural landed gentry.

    Like I say, I grew up in Hessle. So when you speak for ‘The people in the west hull villages’, you don’t speak for me. It just makes perfect sense that Hessle, and all the other West Hull suburbs are just that. Suburbs.

  33. Bluekipper Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I haved lived "over here" in the East Riding for the past twenty years or so namely Kirkella, Brough, Beverley and now back in one of those West Hull Villages which is Willerby. I am from a humble background and would never ever describe myself as a snob. When I work away people ask where I am live and I nearly always say Hull, which I suppose gives encouragement to those who say we are suburbs of the city. But perish the thought that I should ever have to pay my council taxes to the Guild Hall. From what I can make out, the incompetant actions of the City Council and the millions of pounds that have been squandered make me glad that I live just a few hundred yards north of the dividing line on Willerby Road separating Hull from the East Riding.

  34. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Thank you Bluekipper. I agree with all you say about Hull council. The council has done more damage to Hull than the Luffewaffe.

  35. Bluekipper Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I try hard not to bite the hand that has fed me with regards to Hull as a city but to illustrate why in my opinion it is a lost cause, one only has to look at the condition of the recently relaid main thoroughfares into the city and note the fact they are breaking up. It is there for all to see. I suppose it is the fault of those from the villages who have to use the likes of Spring Bank to access all those marvellous facilities I hear a lot about.

  36. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    If the will of this part of the world is that strong to remain seperate from the city it is part of, then maybe the performance of Hull Ciy Council might be improved slightly further and more quickly than it has recently if it unloaded it’s burden of a portion of the Humber Bridge debt onto the ‘west Hull villages’.

  37. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Just my point. The villages are seperate from Hull.

  38. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    So why are Hull City Council paying for ‘your’ bridge?

  39. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Because they are soft

  40. stig-of-the-dump Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Dear t’agitator, that was disarmingly amusing.

  41. theagitator Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Thank you.

  42. Frank-Lee Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    I wonder if these people who live in outlying villages and claim not to use any facilities in Hull go to the KC or Craven Park. thye are pleased to associate themselves with those representatives of this city. however I can’t see a big move for the boundaries being extended. They won’t want all those extra Tory voters, preferring to be in charge of large estates with a heavy benefit culture to ensure we elect Labour MP’s again and again no matter how poor they are and the lack of benefit they and the Labour Party have been to this city.

  43. barrow Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Why keep on with "outlying villages"Outlying where?There are in the East Riding and good shopping areas.Hessle has a square with local butchers and bakers and many small family owned shops/Cottingham has a market on a thursday and many independant owned shops.Anlaby has a gold medal winning butchers shop.There is no need to shop in Hull or go into Hull to get a parking ticket We in "outlying villages"shop at local shops and people know each other and stop for a chat outside local shops in a village square.long live our outlying villages in our own County of East Yorkshire

  44. radiator4612 Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    They are ‘villages’ that lie outside of the city boundary. Therefore, they are correctly termed ‘outlying villages’. However, it has already been stated that most people who live there work in the city of Hull, or rely on it’s infrastructure in one way or another, through employment, healthcare, education (as in Hull College) or shopping, and are joined to the built up urban area.

    So, really, the most appropriate term to use would be ‘outlying suburbs’.

  45. barrow Submitted 9 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    you say people who live in outlying villages work in HULLMany work in Hessle because so many car firms from Hull have relocated there,as have many office firms at Hesslewood Hall,Hessle waterfront and Priory Park west.Add in Brough BA and County Hall at Beverley and there is employment outside Hull.Many do not work in Hull or shop in Hull,but as a Hull lad born in Hull,always push Hull hut it is nice to shop at local family owned shops i Hessle

  46. TTiger Submitted 8 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Hull City Council is struggling to survive as a credible guardian of the place as it is. I can’t see the folk of Hessle and Hedon rushing to be looked after by a bunch of incompetent ex-school caretakers and the like.

    It’d be like the people of Hampstead wanting it to become part of Camden, or Swizerland wanting to join Romania.

    Hull City Council and it’s voters has had years to initiate a wind of change, but they’ve sat on their backsides so long that there’s absolutely no chance of this happening with the will of those involved.

    If they want Westminster to impose it it would expose Hull CC for what it is. there’d be a huge enquiry, and the last thing that lot want is anyone examining their record of governance.

    Hull has the council it deserves I’m afraid, and until that’s sorted out the idea of expanding it’s boundaries is a total non-starter. Even the Labour Party hates Hull City Council. it’s not going to give them any more influence.

    Maybe this should be considered in reverse. Bringing Orchard Park and Bransholme into the East Riding would give us half a chance of sorting the places out.

  47. Colombo Submitted 8 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Haltemprice will not be merged with Hull, because it would then be logical to have new Parliamentary seat called Hull West and Haltemprice. Can you see Mr Johnson being happy at having a lot of Conservative voters dumped into his constituency, or David Davis being enthusiastic at losing them ?

  48. Colombo Submitted 4 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Working my way forwards, from the earliest post, I came upon my last one, 4 months ago. If the boundaries had been rearranged, I wonder if we would be having a by-election?

    Also, reading the deeds to my house – I back on to Springhead Golf Course – I find that the painting of the fence, dividing my land from the golf course, is the joint responsibilty of me and The Lord Mayor of Kingston upon Hull. In 35 years, I’ve never seen him with a brush and a can of creosote, doing his side.

  49. philcollinson Submitted 4 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    why don’t you all stop flapping and expand the boundaries of your mind? listen to yourselves rattling about trivia-engage with the universe-take your minds to unexplored plains

  50. radiator4612 Submitted 4 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    Hey Phil. That’s really heavy man.

  51. MarioTheGibbon Submitted 4 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

    the space inside contains all the space outside, and more.

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