Your Say

When does a life become a life?

by Seasider 6 months ago
Last updated 5 months ago.

Discussions are underway to review the abortion time limit. Is it ever right to extinguish a lifeform? When can it be classed as such – at conception, or at birth when it has a better chance of independent survival? Is it murder?

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ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

All life is precious seasider, and I know that I would have to think long and hard before I went down that route,but I would not condemn those that do.

There are many out there who do not have the support of their family when they become pregnant.

If legalised abortion is scrapped, that only leaves the way back for the ‘back street abortionists’again, and look how many died at the hands of these butchers.
chickenbhuna Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

What a beautiful picture. They can now take 3D & 4D pictures of babies in the womb and babies can be seen smiling, winking and yawning. There is an amazing photograph of a baby undergoing surgery while in the womb, at an age that could have been legally aborted, and it stretched its hand out to hold the surgeon’s finger. It’s at http://www.prolifeamerica.com/4D-Ultrasound-pictures/ but to be honest I don’t recommend anyone looking at it if they’ve recently had a termination or may have to have one, or if you have any kind of anxiety over such things.

I think the right to choose is very important and a fundamental part of women’s rights, but such a decision should only be made for serious reasons. As far as what age should be the limit, I really don’t know – we’re finding out more about very young foetuses which suggests they are viable much earlier than we once thought possible. And actually yes, I do think it’s murder, but socially sanctioned murder, like killing in a war. It’s always going to be a terrible decision to take, but sometimes may be necessary.
medsec Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Should only be allowed if medically necessary – really medically necessary. Aborting a 24 week old baby and allowing it to die whilst there are 24 week olds in neonatal units is obscene.
JA Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

i dont think abortion should be aloud i really dont like it at all and i do think it is murder.I got pregnant at 15 and never conciderd an abortion cause i did the deeds so i should take responsbilty of it.But sadly i lost that baby and then was pregnant again at 16 and have a lovly little girl i couldnt even think about abortion.But thats my opinion
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

ChiefDragon: "and look how many died at the hands of these butchers."

How many did die at the hands of these butchers CD?
JulesJules Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I once watched a programme about abortion and had quite an open opinion about peoples personal choices until the midwife said after one abortion, "God that one screamed all the way to the incinerator"

I have since become totally against selective termination and believe it should only be done for extreme medical reasons.
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I agree that there are cases when abortion is the best option, cases of severe disability, pregnancy resulting from rape etc. However what it should NOT be is a form of contraceptive. Unfortunately there are women and girls who do believe that ‘it’s ok if I get pregnant, I can always get rid of it’.

Yes women do have choices and the choice to not have a baby is right before sex.
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

So rape victims have no say in the matter Jules?
JulesJules Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Yes Lazarus they should, but nowadays a rape victim is offered the morning after pill so it shouldnt come to that but agreed, I would class that as an extreme reason if the other method had failed. jj
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

According to a survey from the World Health Organisation published in 2006, there are a least 70,000 deaths a year from ‘back street’ abortionists,Lazarus.I agree with JJ that it should not be used as a form of contraceptive, but do we really want Great Britain to add to these statistics by abolishing safe legal abortions?
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"All life is precious.." [apologies for the plagiarism] do you eat meat, or is only some life precious?
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Yes Ed I eat meat and no I don’t feel guilty about that, vegetables are also ‘living’ things and they have to die for you to eat them.
Robbo Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"I have since become totally against selective termination and believe it should only be done for extreme medical reasons"

How would that benefit society? People will still get pregnant. It would just mean that more people are having kids that shouldn’t be having them.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

are vegetables conscious though? and many vegetables and fruit can be consumed without harming the plant which carries on producing future crops.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

..so only some life is precious then?
Robbo Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"are vegetables conscious though?"

Depends on what drugs you’ve taken…
mimi Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I ahve never been in that position but i know people who have and it is not a desission that is taken ligthly. It is a hard subject to answer to if you have never been in that position
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

..or which estate you’re on, robbo!
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Are you conscious Ed?
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

If he was Lazarus mebbe he’d know we were discussing abortion and not the food chain. He’s so pedantic and always strays off the subject for a while,well as a CARNIVORE I ain’t gonna bite ‘cos I could keep him at it for hours.:P
theagitator Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Am I the last hetrosexual carnivore in Hull & the surrounding area?
Seasider Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Not while I’m around, Agi!
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Wow, this thing is going crazy! Do you think it would be ok if you ate the foetus after you’d murdered it?
Seasider Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

China – I like the comparison of abortion to contraception, because I suppose it is – a last final act of contraception after the event.

A lot of mention of women, girls etc – does the father of an unborn baby deserve a say in the future of his child, even though he won’t have to endure the same problems as his partner?
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I want some of what Lazarus is on pleeease!!!!His world is so much nicer than ours!!!!!
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

does the father of an unborn baby deserve a say in the future of his child,

Personally I think he does, legally it seems not.
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Seasider ,I have usually found that if the father of the unborn child was around, then the girl invovled would not need to think about an abortion, the girls I have known in this situation that is. Question:Can you put this many comma’s in a sentence or is it un-grammatical?
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Trust me CD, you don’t! The father, if you could call him that at the moment of conception [unless they are married of course], has no say what a woman does with her body.
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

There are cases where a couple have split up but the father would be more than happy to be a father. Unfortunately though, they don’t always have the chance. Thankfully not everyone is like the guests on the Jeremy Kyle show :)
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Jeremy Kyle, now there’s a guy where the case for abortion should be evidence enough China.
Chromosome23 Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Quote Laz "The father, if you could call him that at the moment of conception [unless they are married of course], has no say what a woman does with her body.

Are we talking legally or morally?
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Lazarus I think old Jeremy may be the exception that proves the rule ;)
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Now I’m no fan of abortion, and neither am I a fan of calling the result of two consenting adults a mistake. But, if the high heel was on the other foot, this wouldn’t be an issue for men, it would be equal to having a vasectomy. I could even see the matter unfold down the pub: "By eck Fred, you’re looking a little peaky!" "Aye, I’ve just add to ave one of them abortions like." "Ave you ell as like! Really, which so-and-so did that to yer!" "Oh, it was probably that mucky so-and-so down the Loose Goose." "Cor blimey. Ear, let me get you a stiff one." Matter resolved.

Public morality doesn’t [or shouldn’t] come into this argument. If a woman, for whatever reason she chooses, decides to terminate life within her, then at the end of the day, that is her choice. For a patriarchal society to get in the way over a 3 minute knee-trembler is repulsive and offensive. I did imply if the adults were married, then the father should (although not legally) have a say in abortion. It’s a tough choice, and you see it daily where I live. Souless teenagers walking blindly down the road pushing a pram, only briefly waking if the child in front desires some attention. You can almost see the I-could-have-been in their eyes.

Unfortuantely abortion is proportionately tied to economic reasons, and, again, proportionately about 80% of all abortions are carried out on middle- & upper-class teenagers, so a brake on social mobility for the female poor and the rich lies firmly in child-bearing. I really don’t see why a male has the right to stand in the way of a woman trying to succeed in life, if that brake does not exist for the male.
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

This forum really needs italics.
YourMailWill Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

italics
YourMailWill Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Use pairs of underscores ( _ ); everything contained within the underscores will be displayed in italics (and the underscores will be hidden)
Seasider Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"Ear, let me get you a stiff one"....

It was probably getting a sti….no, I can’t/daren’t go through with it!!!
chickenbhuna Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

From an American paper on therapeutic abortions;

“The greatest increase is from middle class women who desire abortions for ‘psychological reasons’. The emotional crisis accompanying an unwanted pregnancy in a middle class woman is accepted as greater than that of an underprivileged woman.”

There’s something unfair about that – it’s like saying fish don’t feel pain.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

wow an earlier assertion was that "..all life is precious." how, if this is the case, can carniverous behaviour be justified? how, if this is the case, can abortion be countenanced under any circumstances?. [apologies to the quote-quota-quantifiers for the plagiarism contained in this post.]
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"..so pedantic and always strays off the subject for a while,well as a CARNIVORE I ain’t gonna bite ‘cos I could keep him at it for hours.:P"

1: it is in the nature of discussions to ripen like an unfolding flower. i’m sorry that you are not equipped to understand this.

2: "..i could keep him at it for hours.." no, you couldn’t. this unpleasant competetive streak is rife throughout YourMail and smacks of insecurity.

3: i am sorry that you are unable to perceive the interconnectedness of all life forms.
Seasider Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Animal, Vegetable and Mineral. I think we can all agree that anything mineral is not alive. I suppose the difference between animal life and vegetable life is that animal life is equipped with some sort of brain, to enable it to have some sort of sensory/reasoning capability. O.K. so Venus fly traps have sensory reactions, but when was the last time you held a conversation with one? Come to that when did anyone see an apple, rolling across the road, stop because a car was coming?
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

exactly – so if animals are capable of some level of conscious reasoning, carnivourous behaviour becomes untenable, unless you are a lion or whatever and are prepared, as animals do, to engage in cannibalism.
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

It was probably getting a sti….no, I can’t/daren’t go through with it!!!

You showed commendable restraint :D

The fact is thousands of abortions are carried out that shouldn’t have to be/chosen to be carried out. Contraception is freely available and I don’t believe that people don’t know about it.

The old ‘I was on the pill but it didn’t work’ line doesn’t really cut it. Unless you’re in a monogomous relationship and trust your partner then condoms should be used as well. It’s not just pregnancy that’s at issue!
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Thanks for your help YourMailWill
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

so, ‘ow d’yer gerrit to go bold then?
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Maybe <a> ¬process¬ _of /elimination\
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Note how I kept in topic there folks!
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

don’t know about life becoming life, maybe some people should get one first!
Lazarus Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Rather than staying home all day taking pictures of their socks I suppose Ed?
chickenbhuna Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Maybe the definition of life isn’t so clear-cut?

Samuel Butler in 1880 suggested that every molecule was a living thing, and defined death as the breaking up of an association. It’s an idea that has been taken forward and is used today in artificial intelligence work.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

the photo of which you speak brough great joy to many people, and obviously you remember it. for those who haven’t seen it, i’ve reposted a small reproduction. sadly, since this picture was taken the left one has been destroyed in a fire.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

for any other pretend communists who are interested, here’s a pair of shoes not dissimilar to ones worn by policemen when buying bakery items – not real leather, as all life is sacred.
ChiefDragon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I am very secure in my way of life, and know that when someone on this site resorts to sarcasm (which is the lowest form of wit by the way)its usually because we don’t all hold their view on a subject. If God hadn’t meant us to eat meat, He wouldn’t have put animals on earth for man to hunt "Fatted calf and prodigal son".Just because I eat meat does not change my stance on abortion, under the right medical circumstances its a woman’s right to choose.
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

under the right medical circumstances

That is the most important phrase. So often though abortion is available on demand. I feel as though I’m banging a drum a bit here but surely if a woman is intelligent enough to know or work out how to go about getting an abortion, they’re clever enough to sort out contraception. Yes men should also take responsibility but realistically as the woman is the one who ends up pregnant she not only has the right but the responsibility to protect her own body. Abortion can have catastrophic results on the body not just the mind.
chickenbhuna Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

In all the recent debates, the case of women who have had 8 abortions came up. To me that’s unthinkable. On the third they should have been sterilised.
chickenbhuna Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

I mean second.
MarioTheGibbon Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

where is the sarcasm?
Robbo Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

"but surely if a woman is intelligent enough to know or work out how to go about getting an abortion, they’re clever enough to sort out contraception"

Thats like saying we should get rid of prisons and expect people not to commit crime because its morally wrong.

Your argument is based on how people should behave. It doesn’t work like that.

Just save time and say "IF everyone was perfect then…"

BOLD is done from putting a * at the beginning and end of the word or sentance. How did you do underlined?
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Thats like saying we should get rid of prisons and expect people not to commit crime because its morally wrong.

I suppose it is! Just because people still commit crime doesn’t mean we should not only accept it but make it easier though. Abortion was never intended to be a contraceptive but the ‘on demand’ aspect of it means that that is what it is now.

Oh and no, I’m not equating abortion to crime. :)
Eric Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

As soon as limbs can been scanned then their is a life. Their little heart is beating long before that. BUT, we are talking about abortion times and I don’t believe that any set time should be put down. We really have to take into account the person who is carrying the child (I don’t say mum, as she would give that right up having an abortion). It comes down to the reason why a termination is asked for. IF the reason is valid and no solution can be found for her, then, regardless if it’s 20 weeks or 40 weeks, then she should be allowed the termination. Don’t forget how unhappy an unwanted child can be, how it can be shuttled from one place to another because it can’t find a home. You hear too often how foster kids go seeking their real mums and dads only to bring on more heartache for themselves after all the years battling others who pick on them for not having a real mum and dad. So if no solution can be found for the mum to want to have the birth, then termination should be allowed regarless how near the birth is.
China Submitted 6 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

regardless if it’s 20 weeks or 40 weeks, then she should be allowed the termination.

Good God!! Premature babies born at 26 weeks are more and more frequently surving.

If abortions were allowed up to 40 weeks (a 40 week baby is a full term, viable human being by the way) what next? A minute after birth? Six weeks? How about when the mother gets a bit depressed or even suffers badly with post natal depression? Should the baby be ‘aborted’? I hate to think what the doctors and nursed who have to perform these ‘proceedures’ manage to deal with their feelings.
swampduck Submitted 5 months ago Unsuitable Content? Report it!

Surely a woman would have an abortion long before 24 weeks if she didn’t want the baby?It would be much harder and traumatic to have one over half way through the pregnancy?I;ve had 2 kids and at that stage,the foetus is moving and it’s a truly magical moment.